99% of your "new person who got my old dragon made lore I didn't like" problems can be resolved in one of three ways:
1. Actually write lore for your dragons. Save your writing on a backup offsite. A blank bio and the ideas swirling around your head don't count.
2. If you give away your dragons for free, read the recipient's lore ahead of time and see if it's at all compatible with your lore. If you exalt dragons and it turns out your recipient likes to write about how exalting is "ebi11llll!!", that will help you avoid awkward situations.
3. DM the person and ask what their reasoning was behind the changes to their lore. This only works if you wrote lore. No lore in bio means your dragon is free game for the wildest ideas imaginable.
4. Learn to not care about what other people do with their lore, even if it references your lair/lore. Only caveat would be if they mentioned your lair/dragon by name and ID as that could then it be considered a callout.
...or you could remember the fact that the average person is writing their lore in a vacuum and a large percentage of the site are teenagers and young/aspiring writers, for whom "fuck the parents" is like the default backstory. Then you have to go to 0 extra effort at all, because it's not personal and if you're intent on your hatchlings' lore having a certain tone even RE: your own clan you shouldn't be selling dragons to other people at all.
I don't see much difference between this and the people upset about their unnamed fodder getting called SmellySocks and tossed in the soup or whatever.
Some people on SMR mentioned specific references to their own clan lore or having their own dragons named in which case yeah I'd probably say option 3 is an okay idea since that's a direct callout of your specific lair but otherwise IMO you forfeit the right to decide what the dragon "thinks" of its former clan when you sell it to someone else who gets to fill its bio, even if they erase your writing to do it.
honestly i think some allowance could even be made for namedropping the former owner's dragons, at least if its the lore dragon's parents' names?
like they're listed right there on the dragon's profile anyway unless it's a G1 and idk about anyone else but i have enough trouble coming up with names that if i have two "canon" names readymade right there for my lore i'm using those sorry not sorry.
the internet environment these days is hard to navigate for a number of reasons, but people need to figure out how to stop minding what people say, think, and do if it isn't actually harming anyone. #3 could potentially get into harassment territory really fast. if it breaks rules (like namedropping), don't interact: just report and let staff deal with it.
AYRT Can you explain why a casual DM politely asking what's going on would get into harassment territory? I understand the internet environment isn't the best, but why should that stop people from trying to talk things out before escalating?
because you really shouldn't be contacting people to ask why they did whatever they wanted with a dragon you no longer own? it's just weird. they aren't breaking any rules, and if they are you should just report them over trying to talk to them about it.
DA If I've learned anything from playing it's that a lot of flight rising players do not have the tact or the nuance to word their messages properly so as to not come off as attacking nor the ability to see that a message is written 'politely' or not (see the folks who see Aeq's polite customer service style messages as "cold" and "rude"). Tone in text is difficult for a lot of the playerbase which makes sense given we have a lot of young folks, a lot of ND folks, and a lot of folks who speak english as their second/third/etc language.
Most recipients would probably be like 'whoa who's this weirdo obsessing over MY dragon' and go on the defensive right away, especially if it's pointed out that the person messaging them was a previous owner. Because most players have the understanding that once a dragon is in your lair it's yours- a message out of the blue questioning why you changed the lore on a dragon that's now in your possession already comes off as very off-putting. It's a bit like those folks who send messages to exalters about dragons they've sold being put into fodder folders.
It is considered rather weird to be checking up on dragons sold or given away like that, let alone sending messages about them. So like... I wouldn't consider one polite message harassment but.... it can open up to a lot of not great stuff. At the bare minimum you're likely looking at a block because who wants to deal with the potential of having someone blow up at you for altering your dragon as you see fit? At worse you could start a fight and end up blocked anyway and show up mentioned in an anonymous wanker thread in an anonymous drama forum thing for anons to laugh at you over how weird and out of line you were being.
If they're breaking rules, directly referencing your account or dragons by name without asking you first if that's ok, it is probably still better to not engage with them; just report and let staff handle it or to just block them yourself and move on. IMO.
AYRT I see where you're coming from - especially being ND myself. Figuring out tone over text issues are rampant everywhere, it seems.
I try to incorporate what I can of a dragon's original lore, so if someone DM'd me about a dragon they originally had, I'd hear them out. That probably puts me in the minority of players! To me, it's an opportunity for collaboration, not an attack. And if it opens me up to a meh interaction or a situation where I have to block or report, that's a risk I'm okay with taking.
If it makes me weird to approach someone under reasonable pretenses about a dragon I used to have, then I can live with that. Won't be the first time someone thinks I'm weird. Won't be the last either.
no matter how polite you think you word something, the person on the other end might not agree. your tone might not come across as polite, either. the person on the other end is a stranger to you- you don't know them, they don't know you, and you also don't know what their interpretations of confrontation are. a random player coming into your dms to ask why you chose to do something with your own dragon is a tenuous situation at best, and is a grey area for whether or not it toes the line on FR's own Dragon Ownership policy. the person on the other end may see it as you attempting to put a foot in the door to dictate how another player plays the game with their dragon. unless you know that person, and they know you well enough to understand you aren't coming in hot when you ask about why they wrote that bio, you are risking breaking rules yourself. i'm not saying you can't talk things out - you do you - but it's not smart unless you can guarantee that person on the other side will accept your message happily and not interpret it as poor taste or malice.
it's also not your job to determine whether or not someone else's lore is rule breaking, which is the only time where i said in my post you should report. staff has repeatedly - for many circumstances related to harassment and beyond - stated they prefer that if another player has done something you don't like, you should not interact, and instead report it if it's concerning to you.
tl;dr: if it's something you don't like but isn't rulebreaking, don't get involved at risk of potentially breaking rules yourself. if it's something rulebreaking, report it.
Selling or giving away dragons at all is free game for people doing what they want with them. Writing lore yourself isn’t going to stop that.
No one is obligated to keep lore you write for dragons you get rid of - they’re completely within their rights to change it or even remove it completely. Even if they bought the dragon for its lore originally, they can change their mind later. Messaging someone for changing lore on a dragon they own is odd at best, and possibly harassment depending how you go about it.
There is really only one option for lore you don’t like on dragons you sell - don't sell it. Keep the dragon or exalt it yourself. Once it’s out of your lair, it’s not yours anymore.
(Now if someone is explicitly involving your lore or dragons in their own without permission in some sort of questionable way, that’s different - but even so, you’re probably better off reporting it if it’s bad enough and blocking them. But I don’t really think someone going ‘this dragons parents abandoned it!’ or something vague like that is really that questionable on it’s own.)
None of these are actual solutions except maybe 2. The best solution is to never give away your dragons. People delete pre-written lore all the time, I definitely have and DMing a person you gave a dragon to about how you don't like the lore they wrote and if they could change it can be in the realm of harassment imo. That's their dragon, they can write what they want. Granted it can also be harassment to write the former owner was a dick in their bio lol
And the issue isn't "new person who got my old dragon made lore I didn't like" it was "new person wrote that my clan is evil and they practically escaped abuse". I don't give a shit if someone writes a story for an old dragon of mine and I personally don't vibe with it. That's fine, it's literally not my dragon anymore. I do care when they involve me or other users and make them out to be a shitty person in said lore unless it's a special case and they've spoken to whoever they wrote about to get permission.
People need to stop being Luvia and writing weird shit in their lore about the previous owners, simple as that.
AYRT I think my first solution still holds up. If you don't have lore that indicates otherwise, people can think all they want about how your clan operates. The sky's the limit. And if they didn't read in the first place, it becomes pretty obvious to anyone with a brain that's the case once they see your lore.
And... since I feel this needs to be said, and I think it's reasonable that I say it now: you are not magically made out to be a shitty person if someone writes a bad take about your lore and your characters. Anyone giving you grief over that sort of thing is fucking stupid. Block them.
AYRT, we can agree to disagree then. I don't think writing helps because a lot of the times people just delete it without reading anyways. The world building you are providing by writing it is lost then and it's very doubtable that they are going to go out of their way to read your lore to understand it and then write their own. They are just going to write their lore from scratch in my experience. Obviously there are going to be some exceptions to this and maybe writing can help in those times but in the grand scheme it feels like a waste of time. I myself have gotten a dragon with lore and deleted it without a second thought to write my own without reading it or the previous owner's overall lore. I just wrote that dragon into my clan lore and plenty of users do the same (whether it be "normal" like I consider mine or fucked up like some others)
I never said you (general) are a bad person because someone says or writes that you are. It's the fact they wrote that and it makes people uncomfortable reading it about themselves and their dragons/clan. Blocking them doesn't make it go away completely, others can still read and see that shit
AYRT We'll most certainly need to agree to disagree. I won't pretend imagine to understand what "normal" lore is. People like to write and read different kinds of stories - up to and including making a whole lair's worth of dragons into notorious villians, cultists, or any other messed up groups you can think of. This has been a part of the FR lore space since the site began.
Bad takes being out on the internet are a part of life. Is it fair to have some random person think a certain way about you because of what someone else wrote? No. But it's better to learn to deal with the brief, uncomfortable feelings that come with than grow resentful. And better yet to show your work (writing) in advance to alleviate those kind of misunderstandings.
AYRT, I just used "normal" to describe lore as a blanket term for lore obviously. That's a pretty subjective way to describe it so your version of normal may be different from mine, that's fine. I don't have a problem with writing evil or not morally upstanding characters into people's lore, that's not the problem we are talking about lol
You don't have to educate me on that either, I know that bad takes are always going to be on the internet. It's literally unavoidable. I'm just saying maybe it's not cool to fucking write the clan who specifically had that dragon before it was passed to the new owner is abusive and evil. I'm not resentful or anything, I'll just report those instances and be on my way. My only point in arguing any of this with you is to show the solutions aren't so easy as you are saying unless people just decide to avoid it entirely by not giving away or selling their dragons anymore.
AYRT Maybe my autistic ass is getting too old to give a shit about what a hypothetical person writes about "my clan". Maybe I have enough confidence in my writing ability that upon comparison, a reader could understand the difference between my writing and some unrelated, ow the edge backstory.
As much as I want to engage your argument - because it has merit - the crux of it is such a non issue to me as to be non-existent, even in a hypothetical.
The only way I see #1 as a solution is basically you're now headcanoning lore for a dragon you no longer own so now *you*, the previous owner, don't need to worry what other people write for it. This helps the previous owner come to terms with not physically having the dragon under their control or whatever. But it doesn't change that the new owner can do whatever they want with it, and most people will. I've absolutely bought dragons and wiped everything that was in the bio to make it my own- even fancy art and layouts. And since this is now a headcanon for the dragon it isn't really necessary to write it down, unless that makes you feel better.
And it's not really about whether or not *other* people would give you shit, that's irrelevant, the point is that the new owner is potentially saying disparaging things about you (on purpose or accidentally) and that that potentially falls under the site's rules against call-outs and blacklists. The point is that it *could lead to* unwanted attention to a specific user, not whether or not it actually does. This is the same reasoning for why you can't make threads praising specific users either.
But again this all really rolls around into the only real solution of stop giving a fuck what other people write. If it's heinous (and some folks have written truly fucked up shit for a pg13 website without even getting into the 'previous *insert user name* clan was abusive etc etc' stuff that started this discussion) report it and let staff handle it. Otherwise stop giving a shit, mind your own business. [general you's here]
AYRT, I've stared at this response for over five minutes and still don't get how you got "headcanoning lore for a dragon you don't own" out of saving a backup of your writing.
Because I don't see how having written down lore matters at all for a dragon you don't own. I don't see how writing down your lore has any impact on lore other people have written for a dragon you don't own.
You can save a backup of your own writing, that's pretty good practice to have, especially on the internet... but that's not a *solution* to the problem of, to paraphrase the above, 'someone else wrote lore I don't like'. Writing down your own lore is tangential to the topic at hand.
What REALLY gets me is the "Write Lore for the Dragon Above You" thread where some people just. Write some really breathtakingly bad stuff. And I'm not talking about bad grammar/short lore, because everyone has to start somewhere. Don't get me wrong, most of the posts in WLFTDAY are good and there are some super talented and generous people writing in there, but when it gets bad it gets pretty bad.
Like SirScalie who literally called another user's deity-colored dragon, in an ambassador tab, a "crude imitation of the Icewarden" that hates fire flight dragons. Even if they are a newer lore writer or user and not aware of the concept of flight ambassadors, it's wild to me that anyone would write that any dragon is a crude imitation of a deity unless they were specifically being insulting.
Likewise when Rayymond took a dragon whose parents were "a bit disappointed" in them for not pursuing the family business and instead turned it into "they were considered a failure by their parents and RAN AWAY because her parents hated and berated them."
AYRT I've only infrequently participated in that thread and haven't seen much in the way of issues. Both of them appear to be young and inexperienced. Don't attribute to malice what can be attributed to ignorance.
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SMR Lore Salt
(Anonymous) 2024-12-18 11:40 am (UTC)(link)1. Actually write lore for your dragons. Save your writing on a backup offsite. A blank bio and the ideas swirling around your head don't count.
2. If you give away your dragons for free, read the recipient's lore ahead of time and see if it's at all compatible with your lore. If you exalt dragons and it turns out your recipient likes to write about how exalting is "ebi11llll!!", that will help you avoid awkward situations.
3. DM the person and ask what their reasoning was behind the changes to their lore. This only works if you wrote lore. No lore in bio means your dragon is free game for the wildest ideas imaginable.
Re: SMR Lore Salt
(Anonymous) 2024-12-18 01:28 pm (UTC)(link)4. Learn to not care about what other people do with their lore, even if it references your lair/lore. Only caveat would be if they mentioned your lair/dragon by name and ID as that could then it be considered a callout.
Re: SMR Lore Salt
(Anonymous) 2024-12-18 10:11 pm (UTC)(link)Re: SMR Lore Salt
(Anonymous) 2024-12-18 11:31 pm (UTC)(link)You're absolutely right.
Re: SMR Lore Salt
(Anonymous) 2024-12-18 01:33 pm (UTC)(link)I don't see much difference between this and the people upset about their unnamed fodder getting called SmellySocks and tossed in the soup or whatever.
Some people on SMR mentioned specific references to their own clan lore or having their own dragons named in which case yeah I'd probably say option 3 is an okay idea since that's a direct callout of your specific lair but otherwise IMO you forfeit the right to decide what the dragon "thinks" of its former clan when you sell it to someone else who gets to fill its bio, even if they erase your writing to do it.
Re: SMR Lore Salt
(Anonymous) 2024-12-19 11:56 am (UTC)(link)like they're listed right there on the dragon's profile anyway unless it's a G1 and idk about anyone else but i have enough trouble coming up with names that if i have two "canon" names readymade right there for my lore i'm using those sorry not sorry.
Re: SMR Lore Salt
(Anonymous) 2024-12-18 04:55 pm (UTC)(link)Re: SMR Lore Salt
(Anonymous) 2024-12-18 07:07 pm (UTC)(link)Re: SMR Lore Salt
(Anonymous) 2024-12-18 07:45 pm (UTC)(link)because you really shouldn't be contacting people to ask why they did whatever they wanted with a dragon you no longer own? it's just weird. they aren't breaking any rules, and if they are you should just report them over trying to talk to them about it.
Re: SMR Lore Salt
(Anonymous) 2024-12-18 10:11 pm (UTC)(link)If I've learned anything from playing it's that a lot of flight rising players do not have the tact or the nuance to word their messages properly so as to not come off as attacking nor the ability to see that a message is written 'politely' or not (see the folks who see Aeq's polite customer service style messages as "cold" and "rude"). Tone in text is difficult for a lot of the playerbase which makes sense given we have a lot of young folks, a lot of ND folks, and a lot of folks who speak english as their second/third/etc language.
Most recipients would probably be like 'whoa who's this weirdo obsessing over MY dragon' and go on the defensive right away, especially if it's pointed out that the person messaging them was a previous owner. Because most players have the understanding that once a dragon is in your lair it's yours- a message out of the blue questioning why you changed the lore on a dragon that's now in your possession already comes off as very off-putting. It's a bit like those folks who send messages to exalters about dragons they've sold being put into fodder folders.
It is considered rather weird to be checking up on dragons sold or given away like that, let alone sending messages about them. So like... I wouldn't consider one polite message harassment but.... it can open up to a lot of not great stuff. At the bare minimum you're likely looking at a block because who wants to deal with the potential of having someone blow up at you for altering your dragon as you see fit? At worse you could start a fight and end up blocked anyway and show up mentioned in an anonymous wanker thread in an anonymous drama forum thing for anons to laugh at you over how weird and out of line you were being.
If they're breaking rules, directly referencing your account or dragons by name without asking you first if that's ok, it is probably still better to not engage with them; just report and let staff handle it or to just block them yourself and move on. IMO.
Re: SMR Lore Salt
(Anonymous) 2024-12-18 11:47 pm (UTC)(link)I try to incorporate what I can of a dragon's original lore, so if someone DM'd me about a dragon they originally had, I'd hear them out. That probably puts me in the minority of players! To me, it's an opportunity for collaboration, not an attack. And if it opens me up to a meh interaction or a situation where I have to block or report, that's a risk I'm okay with taking.
If it makes me weird to approach someone under reasonable pretenses about a dragon I used to have, then I can live with that. Won't be the first time someone thinks I'm weird. Won't be the last either.
Re: SMR Lore Salt
(Anonymous) 2024-12-19 01:49 am (UTC)(link)no matter how polite you think you word something, the person on the other end might not agree. your tone might not come across as polite, either. the person on the other end is a stranger to you- you don't know them, they don't know you, and you also don't know what their interpretations of confrontation are. a random player coming into your dms to ask why you chose to do something with your own dragon is a tenuous situation at best, and is a grey area for whether or not it toes the line on FR's own Dragon Ownership policy. the person on the other end may see it as you attempting to put a foot in the door to dictate how another player plays the game with their dragon. unless you know that person, and they know you well enough to understand you aren't coming in hot when you ask about why they wrote that bio, you are risking breaking rules yourself. i'm not saying you can't talk things out - you do you - but it's not smart unless you can guarantee that person on the other side will accept your message happily and not interpret it as poor taste or malice.
it's also not your job to determine whether or not someone else's lore is rule breaking, which is the only time where i said in my post you should report. staff has repeatedly - for many circumstances related to harassment and beyond - stated they prefer that if another player has done something you don't like, you should not interact, and instead report it if it's concerning to you.
tl;dr: if it's something you don't like but isn't rulebreaking, don't get involved at risk of potentially breaking rules yourself. if it's something rulebreaking, report it.
Re: SMR Lore Salt
(Anonymous) 2024-12-18 06:53 pm (UTC)(link)i think the only actual option/solution to this non existent problem is:
1. stop giving a shit
and alternatively: stop looking at dragons you've sold
Re: SMR Lore Salt
(Anonymous) 2024-12-18 07:24 pm (UTC)(link)No one is obligated to keep lore you write for dragons you get rid of - they’re completely within their rights to change it or even remove it completely. Even if they bought the dragon for its lore originally, they can change their mind later. Messaging someone for changing lore on a dragon they own is odd at best, and possibly harassment depending how you go about it.
There is really only one option for lore you don’t like on dragons you sell - don't sell it. Keep the dragon or exalt it yourself. Once it’s out of your lair, it’s not yours anymore.
(Now if someone is explicitly involving your lore or dragons in their own without permission in some sort of questionable way, that’s different - but even so, you’re probably better off reporting it if it’s bad enough and blocking them. But I don’t really think someone going ‘this dragons parents abandoned it!’ or something vague like that is really that questionable on it’s own.)
Re: SMR Lore Salt
(Anonymous) 2024-12-18 08:33 pm (UTC)(link)And the issue isn't "new person who got my old dragon made lore I didn't like" it was "new person wrote that my clan is evil and they practically escaped abuse". I don't give a shit if someone writes a story for an old dragon of mine and I personally don't vibe with it. That's fine, it's literally not my dragon anymore. I do care when they involve me or other users and make them out to be a shitty person in said lore unless it's a special case and they've spoken to whoever they wrote about to get permission.
People need to stop being Luvia and writing weird shit in their lore about the previous owners, simple as that.
Re: SMR Lore Salt
(Anonymous) 2024-12-19 12:07 am (UTC)(link)And... since I feel this needs to be said, and I think it's reasonable that I say it now: you are not magically made out to be a shitty person if someone writes a bad take about your lore and your characters. Anyone giving you grief over that sort of thing is fucking stupid. Block them.
Re: SMR Lore Salt
(Anonymous) 2024-12-19 03:45 am (UTC)(link)I never said you (general) are a bad person because someone says or writes that you are. It's the fact they wrote that and it makes people uncomfortable reading it about themselves and their dragons/clan. Blocking them doesn't make it go away completely, others can still read and see that shit
Re: SMR Lore Salt
(Anonymous) 2024-12-19 12:05 pm (UTC)(link)Bad takes being out on the internet are a part of life. Is it fair to have some random person think a certain way about you because of what someone else wrote? No. But it's better to learn to deal with the brief, uncomfortable feelings that come with than grow resentful. And better yet to show your work (writing) in advance to alleviate those kind of misunderstandings.
Re: SMR Lore Salt
(Anonymous) 2024-12-19 02:26 pm (UTC)(link)You don't have to educate me on that either, I know that bad takes are always going to be on the internet. It's literally unavoidable. I'm just saying maybe it's not cool to fucking write the clan who specifically had that dragon before it was passed to the new owner is abusive and evil. I'm not resentful or anything, I'll just report those instances and be on my way. My only point in arguing any of this with you is to show the solutions aren't so easy as you are saying unless people just decide to avoid it entirely by not giving away or selling their dragons anymore.
Re: SMR Lore Salt
(Anonymous) 2024-12-20 12:48 am (UTC)(link)As much as I want to engage your argument - because it has merit - the crux of it is such a non issue to me as to be non-existent, even in a hypothetical.
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(Anonymous) 2024-12-19 01:41 pm (UTC)(link)And it's not really about whether or not *other* people would give you shit, that's irrelevant, the point is that the new owner is potentially saying disparaging things about you (on purpose or accidentally) and that that potentially falls under the site's rules against call-outs and blacklists. The point is that it *could lead to* unwanted attention to a specific user, not whether or not it actually does. This is the same reasoning for why you can't make threads praising specific users either.
But again this all really rolls around into the only real solution of stop giving a fuck what other people write. If it's heinous (and some folks have written truly fucked up shit for a pg13 website without even getting into the 'previous *insert user name* clan was abusive etc etc' stuff that started this discussion) report it and let staff handle it. Otherwise stop giving a shit, mind your own business. [general you's here]
Re: SMR Lore Salt
(Anonymous) 2024-12-19 05:07 pm (UTC)(link)Re: SMR Lore Salt
(Anonymous) 2024-12-20 02:02 pm (UTC)(link)You can save a backup of your own writing, that's pretty good practice to have, especially on the internet... but that's not a *solution* to the problem of, to paraphrase the above, 'someone else wrote lore I don't like'. Writing down your own lore is tangential to the topic at hand.
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(Anonymous) 2024-12-18 10:07 pm (UTC)(link)Like SirScalie who literally called another user's deity-colored dragon, in an ambassador tab, a "crude imitation of the Icewarden" that hates fire flight dragons. Even if they are a newer lore writer or user and not aware of the concept of flight ambassadors, it's wild to me that anyone would write that any dragon is a crude imitation of a deity unless they were specifically being insulting.
Likewise when Rayymond took a dragon whose parents were "a bit disappointed" in them for not pursuing the family business and instead turned it into "they were considered a failure by their parents and RAN AWAY because her parents hated and berated them."
Re: SMR Lore Salt
(Anonymous) 2024-12-18 11:56 pm (UTC)(link)