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An important update:

Due to a specific person being a complete child, comments are going to be screened by default.

This is only temporary, and I apologize for the inconvenience- this is going to be a pain in the ass for me, too, but multiple people have come forward about fears of doxxing, and this is the only way to make sure any doxxing is contained.

(This basically will force the doxxer to make a DW account to post any doxxing attempts unscreened, and will let me more reliably report them to DW staff/authorities.)

Again, I apologize, and will be working to unscreen comments as fast as possible, but I'm only one person.

(Vasemod has had some personal issues come up, so I am the only mod atm. Please bear with me until this bit of annoyance has passed.)

Comments

mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

i didn’t see a post yet about the recent update - https://www1.flightrising.com/forums/ann/3282852

with the implementation of on-site pinglists today, they’re planning to sunset mass pings in the future. this feels like a massive misstep. do devs understand how much of the dedicated playerbase relies on these player-run systems? systems that users have put actual years into building and maintaining?

i’m not just upset, i’m genuinely angry. this affects so many facets of collecting, buying and selling. dominance is going to be killed, gasp for skins and accents is done, the g1 pinglist will be nullified and collecting is going to be a pain in the ass. it’s so joever… and all due to pinglist harassment that won’t even be completely eradicated - many people still use spreadsheets for things besides pinglists, including orders and dom events. i’ve been considering this from many angles, and they’re all pretty terrible.

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

it's so fucking joever man. dom organization is going to shatter to pieces, i know every battle i've participated in required different people using the same pinglists to quickly distribute fodder, and now pinglists can only be used by a single person and are non transferable. and wrt skins and dragons, even if they decide that pinglists can be used by other people, i cannot fathom how they could implement the level of personalization that GASP and the various dragon pinglists offer.

even if they did somehow, offering automated pinglists with adjustable criteria that cancel out, it would still leave out some players. it's hard to articulate, but i think that adding a GASP/ODCA/SIDHA/etc imitation on site would stir up a storm of people asking, "why was 'x' keyword included but 'y' wasn't? what about 'z'?". if staff copied over the criteria from the biggest pinglists, would that be seen as sleazy? when you're extending a community-run tool to the entire website, people who avoided the player-made tools because they didn't account for their specific wants may get very upset at staff for implementing this feature to the entire site, but still having restrictions and keywords that might not satisfy every player. does that make sense? that's one of my biggest issues about killing a community-run tool and potentially trying to bring it on-site. i doubt it will happen, but it's a possibility if staff keeps following this mindset of "bring everything on-site" while attempting to appeal to a very vocally upset chunk of players. maybe my imagination is running away with me :P

sincerely hoping that staff listens to the feedback and keeps mass pings as they are. given that they keep reminding players that this is a future update without a set date and they are listening to feedback (does this come off as passive aggressive to anyone else? i don't mean to read xhaz and aeq's comments in bad faith, but that's how it reads to me. i might be misunderstanding though), i hope that they'll listen to the overwhelming negative feedback about this feature and keep mass pings, perhaps with some options to disable notifications for pings of >12 players.

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

rip dom org. anything that is fun about dom is entirely the creation of players, so i hope they at least listen to dom teams if nobody else who’s been affected.

i completely understand and agree with what you’re saying about how any feature that might match gasp would be subject to community scrutiny in an unmanageable way. i hadn’t thought of that, but… yeah, we’re done for. i just can’t decide if it’s worse for skin advertising to die completely or if a site run feature would be an absolute mess, either from the community or from staff.

also, i am genuinely an extremely chill person and i usually agree with staff/also try to be understanding of their choices. but i also feel that the ‘we are listening to feedback, we still have time to make fixes, but we’re not going to meaningfully address the major issues this will cause <3’ response is just not the one we need. it all feels like they had no idea that these mass pings were so important to so many players, which does not give me faith that shuttering them will come with meaningful and satisfactory replacements. we all understand that this feature is in its infancy, but we’ve been saying flight rising features can’t possibly match up to player-run tools. they said to keep an open mind, but literally how can they build anything that comes close to what the community already has?

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

anon, while I understand your distress, I think it's extremely safe to say that the sheer amount of player feedback means that no, this will not happen.

who knows exactly what solution staff will arrive at, but I feel very confident that they will not sunset mass pings until such time as they can fully replace their functionality.

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

NAYRT but worth knowing that the UMA makers are threatening to go after their wallet if this gets implemented. A lot of the big ones are saying they're just going to stop publishing public skins if this is implemented. Seeing as UMAs are a big driver of gem sales, I think that may alarm staff.

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

+.5 in that i also hope the backlash will have staff thinking twice but i've been disappointed by companies making the most obvious mistakes before

i would love for any pinglist revamp to be related to the ah somehow, like say i'm interested in "pre-gened xyx g1s" so i sign up to receive notifs for those and someone posts a dragon for sale there which sends me a ping saying that the sale exists. this doesn't solve all the mass pinglist issues but it would be so convenient!

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

i feel like if anything, they’ve doubled down on their intention to remove mass pings. going through dev tracker, they just seem committed to ‘finding solutions’ to the issues that players have brought up once they implement the new features, whatever they may be. i am usually very patient with staff, but idk man. this is bad.

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

i'm just as worried about the ramifications this will have if it does go through without some kind of major change but like, idk i think the team has been pretty good about listening to user feedback and i think its incredibly unlikely they'll just... leave it like this. i need everyone who is "genuinely angry" to take take a nap or have a small snack. chill tf out.

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

i’m angry because a site feature/community i care deeply about is going to be extremely impacted by this change. i’ll come out and say that i’m concerned for skins and accents, and skins are the main reason i’ve kept interest in this game. the idea that gasp could become obsolete is harmful to so many people, artists and collectors. and i believe this will have a wider impact than they’ve anticipated.

a ten skin bundle is the lowest cost per skin, but it is a 5000g investment. many players can’t make that investment up-front. those users rely on gasp for both exposure and the ability to make the skin. the engagement that gasp gives is impossible to replicate on the forums naturally, and it can be difficult even for artists that have ‘big’ pinglists to fill entire runs because skin and accent collecting is expensive.

even though this part of the site is robust, it’s still a small percentage of users overall, so it genuinely wouldn’t make sense for staff to use resources recreating this simple and effective system of advertising. as another anon pointed out, it would likely come with its own set of challenges to moderate if they *did* implement it on site. and this is only one community that relies on pinglists for advertising sales and finding items/dragons/whatever they specifically desire. these are systems that have had *years* for trial and error, and anything that replaces them is going to have kinks that will harm the economy while they’re worked out.

i don’t think we have a dappervolk or lorwolf on our hands, but it cannot be overstated that economic impacts will be very much felt as a result of this decision.

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

Everyone is being so dramatic about this that it borders on parody. I've seen people prematurely declaring that they'll never do public skin sales again. Whoever FR has as their project manager royally fucked up not getting user feedback at any earlier stage, and it's very evident that they fucked up, but it's to see people keep insisting that the site simply wants communities to die and would never listen to their feedback.

I really want to know what the development process looks like because it's incredibly obvious that they've had absolutely no user feedback at any stage of this process and it's leading to a lot of grief and dramatics. Had they sent even 1% of the active userbase on high-traffic forums for this (like Dragon Sales, Auctions, and Skins & Accents) a Surveymonkey survey before they started delving into it, they'd hardly be facing any of these incredibly foreseeable issues as sudden problems. Who is managing these projects???

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

Honestly, it just seems rushed because I guess the harassment via self-editable pinglists got pretty out of hand that the devs felt like they had to push it out ASAP, as barebones as it is right now.

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

"it's incredibly obvious that they've had absolutely no user feedback at any stage of this process"

Did they even have Dev feedback at any point? You can't delete pinglists you create. You know, one of the easiest things to assume people are going to want to do?

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

honestly with how some of FR users handle changes, I think even if they were just doing a 'theoretical, this is how we would like to move forward' post, they would still get these same types of posts.

I do know that site side pinglists is something that has been brought up in the suggestions forum before, and something that many people want, but I don't recall very many, if any, people bringing up things like GASP.

That might be why the developers didn't send out surveys, because they already had feedback on what people wanted, through the suggestions forum, but none of the concerns about how complicated some of the *big* pinglists are were ever really addressed.

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

I saw the update and thought wow, when the staff implements long-begged-for suggestions, they go hard, people are going to be thrilled! I was very surprised to see the backlash in the thread comments and here - genuinely didn't occur to me that manual mass pings would still be needed now that we have this. But from reading some of it, I see y'all's point, particularly the lack of editability/usability of a list across multiple users/managers. (My own use of pinglists has always been simple and personal, and I detest google sheets, so just for my own purposes this seemed like a dream come true.)

Possible fix: they're offering customization when it comes to whether you want to be pinged manually and whether you want to be pinged through on-site-created pinglists. Why not designate posts with mass manual pings as a separate Thing (obviously this can be detected, or it wouldn't be possible to cap them), and allow people to opt out of being pinged to such posts? That would take care of harassment worries, I'd think.

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not sure if this is an old thing or it got added in this update, but in your account settings, there are ticks for disabling both regular pings and pinglist pings. Not sure how complicated it would be to implement that for individual posts, though.

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

My suggestion is a third tick - enable/disable mass pings. So if someone had that disabled, and they were pinged to a post with 12+ users pinged, they wouldn't receive that ping.

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

Brightmyth made a pretty good post about the mass pings.

https://www.tumblr.com/brightmyth-fr/732389422805483520

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

Can I be honest? Both sides of the argument have "stop you're making our side look shitty". See the people Bright is complaining about. On the other side, see Jackaling's nasty "there's no way you can do what we did so don't try" attitude ripping into staff.

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

i… wanted to call the complexity of the tools being taken away from the community to staff’s attention but ok

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, honestly, I have seen that attitude of 'staff can't replace gasp, so they should just forget about trying to fix harrasment issues and just ignore mass pings' elsewhere as well.

I feel that ultimately GASP (and some other massive pinglists) are going to have to change, but hopefully staff will be able to give a good substitute.

Maybe it would help to look at things from a different perspective than just massive pinglists.

Most people complaining are complaining about the UI of the pinglist so maybe staff should look into some sort of functionality where users can input criteria and they get notified about any skins that meet that (sort of like a search) when the artist submits the skin to said functionality.

(I don't plan to suggest this, because I don't have any experience with GASP, nor do I have any ideas because the above of how it would actually look. Just remove the need for pings altogether with things like GASP)

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

I knew UMAs were important money wise to the site but I didn't know how much, woah

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

You guys, I’ve solved it. The solution to everyone’s problem? Froogle Drive. Flight Rising develops its own proprietary forms, docs, and spreadsheet software stored onsite.

The reveal? A new arlo plot in lightning that just keeps generating more dirt. Once we finally break through, we end up in the sandsurge headquarters and steal their organizational software.

Staff, I hope you were taking notes. Everyone else? No need to thank me, disaster averted.

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

this is actually what i want for real. please. please. please. please. let us escape google's grasp.

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

Anon we'll need a kickstarter for the amount of development time it requires.

Backers will receive special Froogle Forms, Froogle Docs and Froogle Sheets familiars, Froogle Vista and most important of all, Froogly Eyes apparel. It will be very Frooglers, you're welcome.

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

I've been busy with uni and didn't see this update thing until today.

I just really don't get what's so hard about making lists shareable so other people than the pinglists author can use it, and why doing such would be such a big deal for the staff.

I mean. The function as such is pretty damn cool. I was a bit excited at first, because adding and removing yourself from a pinglist with one single onsite click is not a bad idea. It really isnt! But then I realized those lists were unsharable and because of it, completely and utterly useless to how I play FR, and I was so miffed. So if everyone in say, a subspecies thread where you can ask to be pinged for specific generations of hatchlings or whatever, have to make their own pinglist and hassle with getting everyone interested in putting themselves onto every list of every person breeding for the subspecies, that's just not practical.

I've been on FR for very long, and I literally really only stay on FR to participate in that type of thread. Very often through the years, people have complained that FR staff don't seem to play their own game, and this I guess, is just one of many examples of that.

I mean, I'm old enough not to be angry about it, but I am for sure inconvenienced. And a bit sad, because if they push through with removing mass pings as a result of this, it'll take a lot of fun out of the game for me. And I honestly don't know if I'll continue playing if this goes through, because it's just not going to be fun anymore. FR highlights for me is getting pinged for hatches of subspecies and lineage nests :/