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An important update:

Due to a specific person being a complete child, comments are going to be screened by default.

This is only temporary, and I apologize for the inconvenience- this is going to be a pain in the ass for me, too, but multiple people have come forward about fears of doxxing, and this is the only way to make sure any doxxing is contained.

(This basically will force the doxxer to make a DW account to post any doxxing attempts unscreened, and will let me more reliably report them to DW staff/authorities.)

Again, I apologize, and will be working to unscreen comments as fast as possible, but I'm only one person.

(Vasemod has had some personal issues come up, so I am the only mod atm. Please bear with me until this bit of annoyance has passed.)

Comments

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

Everyone is being so dramatic about this that it borders on parody. I've seen people prematurely declaring that they'll never do public skin sales again. Whoever FR has as their project manager royally fucked up not getting user feedback at any earlier stage, and it's very evident that they fucked up, but it's to see people keep insisting that the site simply wants communities to die and would never listen to their feedback.

I really want to know what the development process looks like because it's incredibly obvious that they've had absolutely no user feedback at any stage of this process and it's leading to a lot of grief and dramatics. Had they sent even 1% of the active userbase on high-traffic forums for this (like Dragon Sales, Auctions, and Skins & Accents) a Surveymonkey survey before they started delving into it, they'd hardly be facing any of these incredibly foreseeable issues as sudden problems. Who is managing these projects???

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

Honestly, it just seems rushed because I guess the harassment via self-editable pinglists got pretty out of hand that the devs felt like they had to push it out ASAP, as barebones as it is right now.

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

I suppose that's a component of it, but even a minute of interaction with players that use these pinglists on a daily basis to begin with would have saved them a huge headache. And I'm sure the harassment made them speed it up, but it's a feature they've been intending to bring on-site regardless of it anyway, isn't it?

It makes me think about how all of their feature development is done without any user feedback at fundamental stages and how the initial release simply becomes the first user testing instead. It leads to unnecessary stress on part of the headless chicken masses whenever any change comes out and it means that even basic features any user would have thought of (like the ability to have multiple managers of a list, the ability to allow permission tiers for others to ping your created list) are met with a great big "huh" because they hadn't thought the basics through.

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

If they did this, it's much larger than 1 user getting added to lists. This is mass harassment.

I just wish people would understand that. This feels like emergency implementation. And unlike some things, they asked feedback before cutting things off.

Remember the link forwards change?

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

For real. Salt to the people who decided to start harassing with ping lists, they poisoned a community effort that’s been operating with no issue for a decade because they can’t control themselves.

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

well its a shame but it is inevitable since the dawn of humanity, as a popular saying goes "a rotten apple sours the whole barrel"

there will be always bad actors in every community driven thing that requires trust, and people have either to accept it or make changes to keep those bad actors out

on FR if someone used a pinglist wrong or pinged people multiple times they will often get chewed out by many people, since they where misusing the trust of people that signed up for those pinglists, often the bad actors would apologize and move on, if they continued with that behavior people will report them to the big pinglists and also just block them.
so that was kinda a self regulating thing, but the harassment of people adding names to pinglists or removing them still persists in many forms

it will never go away, even if off site pinglists disappear eventually, there is still room for harassment with skin/accent orders where you can fill in your own name, but that can also be amended if the artists just make the order process via forum posts, and the artists adds themselves the name onto the sheet, but that is a lot of work for the artist sadly.

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

"it's incredibly obvious that they've had absolutely no user feedback at any stage of this process"

Did they even have Dev feedback at any point? You can't delete pinglists you create. You know, one of the easiest things to assume people are going to want to do?

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

honestly with how some of FR users handle changes, I think even if they were just doing a 'theoretical, this is how we would like to move forward' post, they would still get these same types of posts.

I do know that site side pinglists is something that has been brought up in the suggestions forum before, and something that many people want, but I don't recall very many, if any, people bringing up things like GASP.

That might be why the developers didn't send out surveys, because they already had feedback on what people wanted, through the suggestions forum, but none of the concerns about how complicated some of the *big* pinglists are were ever really addressed.

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, there would have definitely been backlash regardless. That's just how it goes for a site like this, or developing for most websites, to be honest. But going about it this incompetently just gives people actual reasons to whine like this beyond "wah I hate change."

Re: mass pings are going to be killed and it’s going to kill the economy

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

I don't even see what they are doing as 'incompetent'.

They implemented one facet of a feature, and said 'we will be shutting down another part at some future date, please give us feedback'. They haven't even, as far as I know, changed anything previous to the onsite pinglist, they just added that feature.

With some things, the only way to get good feed back is to show the people who are going to use it the actual feature and allow them to use it. Otherwise it is all theoretical, and can lead to things that aren't feasible within the structure they are thinking about.

But now, we have pinglists, we see how they work, and so we can now give feedback that hopefully can expand upon the existing framework to make it better.

If they said 'hey we are going to make an online pinglist feature, give us feedback' they might have gotten some good feedback, but a lot of it would have been things that might not be possible with the framework they had in mind (and changing that might mean other features they want are now not possible or the changes would make the pinglists inefficient with regards to the server).

I really do hope that there is a solution that can appease most of the players (there are some that I know aren't going to be happy unless staff just gives up on removing mass pings, and some that *any* changes to the way things are done now will make them upset).

There are at least 4 different threads on the suggestions forums, 1 about GASP, one about the Old dragons, and one about Dom (think the last one is just a generic mass ping one), and all those are great places to give feedback, because the developers are actively looking there.