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I would argue that, but I refuse to use other user's work in arguments for this.
But when there are so many aspects of light, especially when other flights get variety, I tire of the vast majority of light's stuff being such a one color angel festival.
But when there are so many aspects of light, especially when other flights get variety, I tire of the vast majority of light's stuff being such a one color angel festival.
Part of the problem with earth is that a lot of flights don’t want to battle them. Battles are fun when you might have a fighting chance, not so much with a curbstomp. People were confused enough when Arcane challenged Light. The only flight that might stand a chance, numbers-wise, would be fire, and realistically it would have to be with massive support from at least one other flight and a crack dom team stepping in.
Water might have a shot but I think they gave it a try and it was rough.
Water might have a shot but I think they gave it a try and it was rough.
It was expensive, but it was worthwhile and a good time. But I think water wants to challenge other flights.
Considering the status of fire dom, I don't see that happening.
So Earth needs a pass due to lack of challengers
Considering the status of fire dom, I don't see that happening.
So Earth needs a pass due to lack of challengers
OP
I’m specifically not replying to any comments that are trying to derail the thread because it’s not about that at all.
For a cool down, I think 10 should be the limit. There are over 120 unique entries in every festival. Like out of 120 entries assuming there are only 12 pages but there’s often more, including honorable mentions.. they truly could not make a decision to let someone else have the opportunity to shine?
120 artists. And it’s not the same artist repeating in every festival. We have six Elemental flights from memory, So that would 720 entries at minimum.
Like slowly think about it what is the statistical probability that one slot will always be won by (user)? In every festival?
Like thinking about the whole situation slowly and carefully, It’s slowly becoming uncomfortable to see. I think if the staff love their art so much, they should promote them to site artist that would be amazing and cool!
It’s just from a moral standpoint.
I’m specifically not replying to any comments that are trying to derail the thread because it’s not about that at all.
For a cool down, I think 10 should be the limit. There are over 120 unique entries in every festival. Like out of 120 entries assuming there are only 12 pages but there’s often more, including honorable mentions.. they truly could not make a decision to let someone else have the opportunity to shine?
120 artists. And it’s not the same artist repeating in every festival. We have six Elemental flights from memory, So that would 720 entries at minimum.
Like slowly think about it what is the statistical probability that one slot will always be won by (user)? In every festival?
Like thinking about the whole situation slowly and carefully, It’s slowly becoming uncomfortable to see. I think if the staff love their art so much, they should promote them to site artist that would be amazing and cool!
It’s just from a moral standpoint.
"120 artists. And it’s not the same artist repeating in every festival. We have six Elemental flights from memory, So that would 720 entries at minimum."
Sorry, what do you mean here by six elemental flights?
"Like slowly think about it what is the statistical probability that one slot will always be won by (user)? In every festival?"
Okay, I think I understand. You are viewing the festival contests as a sort of random draw based off the statistical probability appeal. The problem is, it's a lottery. If the same person were winning 10 months of Roundey's Raffle Roulette in a row, I might agree! There's something clearly wrong here! But I don't understand how you can think it's wrong from a moral standpoint that the skin contests aren't statistically even odds for each participating entry.
Sorry, what do you mean here by six elemental flights?
"Like slowly think about it what is the statistical probability that one slot will always be won by (user)? In every festival?"
Okay, I think I understand. You are viewing the festival contests as a sort of random draw based off the statistical probability appeal. The problem is, it's a lottery. If the same person were winning 10 months of Roundey's Raffle Roulette in a row, I might agree! There's something clearly wrong here! But I don't understand how you can think it's wrong from a moral standpoint that the skin contests aren't statistically even odds for each participating entry.
Also, when you say 10 should be the limit - does this mean a 10 month cooldown, or after winning 10 contests (singly, or in a row) the artist should not be allowed to participate in any more?
Not OP bringing morality and ethics into this lmao.
Attempts to get the moral high ground aside, you realize that the staff pick these entries right? Like the other anon said, it ain’t a lottery. It makes sense to me that the staff picks what they consider the best entries every festival and frankly it’s even less fair and more “immoral” to ban someone from entering a contest because they’ve won before.
Attempts to get the moral high ground aside, you realize that the staff pick these entries right? Like the other anon said, it ain’t a lottery. It makes sense to me that the staff picks what they consider the best entries every festival and frankly it’s even less fair and more “immoral” to ban someone from entering a contest because they’ve won before.
My apologies for being pedantic, but do you mean it’s bad for “morale”? I don’t think there’s anything morally or ethically wrong with picking artists who are consistently good.
(I’m going to go a bit off-topic so you can ignore this next part. I just think maybe some other anons would want to read it)
Yes, it is really bad for morale when losing an art contest. There are other artists on the internet who have more insightful things to say, so I will paraphrase the creator of draw-a-box: people conflate the success of their published art to their overall worth as an artist. Some people feel like it defines their worth as a person. This is a very common mindset that encourages wallowing over practicing. There is nothing wrong with losing morale when posting art on the internet. It is just something that needs to be trained out of the brain. (You could argue that this way of thinking is just natural in a capitalist society)
See also this blog post titled “Your Art is ‘Unappealing’ and That’s Okay”
https://mani.neocities.org/blogs/articles/appeal
(I’m going to go a bit off-topic so you can ignore this next part. I just think maybe some other anons would want to read it)
Yes, it is really bad for morale when losing an art contest. There are other artists on the internet who have more insightful things to say, so I will paraphrase the creator of draw-a-box: people conflate the success of their published art to their overall worth as an artist. Some people feel like it defines their worth as a person. This is a very common mindset that encourages wallowing over practicing. There is nothing wrong with losing morale when posting art on the internet. It is just something that needs to be trained out of the brain. (You could argue that this way of thinking is just natural in a capitalist society)
See also this blog post titled “Your Art is ‘Unappealing’ and That’s Okay”
https://mani.neocities.org/blogs/articles/appeal
Idk about side-wide stereotypes. Those are/used to be mine.
I used to hate Light. I thought they were all annoying, pretentious tryhards. It's now my favorite flight. LOL (I feel entirely different about them now!) I know people believe them to be filthy rich and possibly a bit haughty. My opinion is that they're just very tight-knit and the filthy rich stereotype mostly stems from their huge gift giving culture. Some of them are absolutely loaded though, I'll give you that.
I used to think Shadow were a bunch of 13 year old edgy kids. They're actually very nice, kind, and I LOVE their dom pushes. They don't actually like the goopy, cursed, weird aesthetic of their flight so much.
Earth: back then (like, years ago), just some people who like rocks or were emotionally damaged by the fact that Earthshaker has no friends left (valid to feel this way). Now, to me, all the annoying g1/uma people are in there and they're unsufferable.
Nature: hippies. My view of them hasn't changed in 8 years LOL. Absolutely love their vibes. They're so kind. Never bothered. They adore their flight. Good for them!
I don't have many thoughts about the other flights. Honestly, except the flock of people who moved to Earth to leech off the dom bonuses, I think most flights have cool vibes.
I used to hate Light. I thought they were all annoying, pretentious tryhards. It's now my favorite flight. LOL (I feel entirely different about them now!) I know people believe them to be filthy rich and possibly a bit haughty. My opinion is that they're just very tight-knit and the filthy rich stereotype mostly stems from their huge gift giving culture. Some of them are absolutely loaded though, I'll give you that.
I used to think Shadow were a bunch of 13 year old edgy kids. They're actually very nice, kind, and I LOVE their dom pushes. They don't actually like the goopy, cursed, weird aesthetic of their flight so much.
Earth: back then (like, years ago), just some people who like rocks or were emotionally damaged by the fact that Earthshaker has no friends left (valid to feel this way). Now, to me, all the annoying g1/uma people are in there and they're unsufferable.
Nature: hippies. My view of them hasn't changed in 8 years LOL. Absolutely love their vibes. They're so kind. Never bothered. They adore their flight. Good for them!
I don't have many thoughts about the other flights. Honestly, except the flock of people who moved to Earth to leech off the dom bonuses, I think most flights have cool vibes.
lmao you are in fact correct; nature was my home for eons before I finally flight-changed just this year
NAYRT
I think the problem that most people have with this is simply that it IS a contest. I have seen so many sites that have contests such as this and most of those also have the typical 'X has won multiple contests in a row, the contest is unfair, there must be handicaps on winners to stop them from winning multiple times!'
I can sort of understand this point. It can be frustrating to constantly see the same people winning and know that you would never be able to beat them.
However, that is the point of a contest. If those people are legitimately (as in not cheating in someway) putting the work required to win the contest, then they should win that contest. To me, it is that simple.
It does get a bit blurrier when talking about contests that have more subjective metrics, such as art contests, but even then, as others have said, there is obviously specific things that the staff who picks the winners look for, and the repeat winners have figured that out and utilize that knowledge.
Even with the Roundsey thing, as long as the people who kept winning were doing so legitimately (ie buying enough tickets to consistently win), then, again, it would be frustrating, but still part of the nature of that particular type of lottery. (though I do agree that it would be more likely that someone was cheating somehow than they were able to buy enough tickets each week/month to win every time)
Honestly, to me, it gets sort of tiring to constantly see complaints about contests being 'unfair' and how they should be 'fair' and in order to do so, winners should be handicapped to prevent them from winning more often than whoever is making the complaint feels fair.
I think the problem that most people have with this is simply that it IS a contest. I have seen so many sites that have contests such as this and most of those also have the typical 'X has won multiple contests in a row, the contest is unfair, there must be handicaps on winners to stop them from winning multiple times!'
I can sort of understand this point. It can be frustrating to constantly see the same people winning and know that you would never be able to beat them.
However, that is the point of a contest. If those people are legitimately (as in not cheating in someway) putting the work required to win the contest, then they should win that contest. To me, it is that simple.
It does get a bit blurrier when talking about contests that have more subjective metrics, such as art contests, but even then, as others have said, there is obviously specific things that the staff who picks the winners look for, and the repeat winners have figured that out and utilize that knowledge.
Even with the Roundsey thing, as long as the people who kept winning were doing so legitimately (ie buying enough tickets to consistently win), then, again, it would be frustrating, but still part of the nature of that particular type of lottery. (though I do agree that it would be more likely that someone was cheating somehow than they were able to buy enough tickets each week/month to win every time)
Honestly, to me, it gets sort of tiring to constantly see complaints about contests being 'unfair' and how they should be 'fair' and in order to do so, winners should be handicapped to prevent them from winning more often than whoever is making the complaint feels fair.
Idk about annoying and pretentious (most of us really try to avoid that!) but Light flight players are absolute grinders. There’s a big Coli culture and a lot of spreadsheets and a good number of complete madlads who go all out during festival weeks.
I’m using “rich” here as “player who can play to buy and fully gene a G1 within the next month, with at least one gem gene, if they so choose”
I’m using “rich” here as “player who can play to buy and fully gene a G1 within the next month, with at least one gem gene, if they so choose”
Yes, I know this one pops up in FRD sometimes. I’d like to hear the unfiltered opinions. What to you is a “wealthy player”?
by "derail" do you mean not replying to the people who are saying things you specifically don't want to hear?
to put it plain and simple for you: this is a contest. a competition. you sound like you've lost to these people multiple times and i think it's time for you to look inwards. staff doesn't just pick these people for their names; 888 has gone without winning fests before.
like not to be a dick but i fear this is a skill issue moment and if you are truly so frustrated by your loss that you seek to implement bans and restrictions on talented and skilled artists who win maybe you need to hit the bricks and study their methodology for winning. you're not not getting picked because staff is playing favorites- you're not getting picked because your work isn't up to par with what staff is looking for. period.
stop harassing and belittling and trying to put restrictions on random people who just do their best and come out in first place. it's so annoying to see and i can imagine how they all feel having to deal with it every. single. fest.
to put it plain and simple for you: this is a contest. a competition. you sound like you've lost to these people multiple times and i think it's time for you to look inwards. staff doesn't just pick these people for their names; 888 has gone without winning fests before.
like not to be a dick but i fear this is a skill issue moment and if you are truly so frustrated by your loss that you seek to implement bans and restrictions on talented and skilled artists who win maybe you need to hit the bricks and study their methodology for winning. you're not not getting picked because staff is playing favorites- you're not getting picked because your work isn't up to par with what staff is looking for. period.
stop harassing and belittling and trying to put restrictions on random people who just do their best and come out in first place. it's so annoying to see and i can imagine how they all feel having to deal with it every. single. fest.
DA Wow anon who pissed in your cheerios, that's a bit aggro =0
I get it but sheesh.
I don't think op was harassing or belittling, in fact iirc they went out of their way to say, at the top of their post, that their post was not about that and please don't do that as they wanted the discussion to be about something other than those players, for once. In fact the only harassing i saw this whole thread were the anons coming out to wk for myth and 888 (which, not that that isn't valid given what they've had thrown at them, but imo it came off a little too aggressive a little too quickly) and frankly, i do think op had something there with their idea. Or they could have, if any of you would have listened to what they actually were trying to say and didn't shut them down instantly because god forbid people mention mv or 888 at all, regardless of the context. Also, i'm not invested in this because i'm not an artist but saying essentially "yeah you just suck op you're a bad artist, sorry" is a really weird take like....not to mention OP didn't mention "bans and restrictions" they just mentioned a cooldown.
I get it but sheesh.
I don't think op was harassing or belittling, in fact iirc they went out of their way to say, at the top of their post, that their post was not about that and please don't do that as they wanted the discussion to be about something other than those players, for once. In fact the only harassing i saw this whole thread were the anons coming out to wk for myth and 888 (which, not that that isn't valid given what they've had thrown at them, but imo it came off a little too aggressive a little too quickly) and frankly, i do think op had something there with their idea. Or they could have, if any of you would have listened to what they actually were trying to say and didn't shut them down instantly because god forbid people mention mv or 888 at all, regardless of the context. Also, i'm not invested in this because i'm not an artist but saying essentially "yeah you just suck op you're a bad artist, sorry" is a really weird take like....not to mention OP didn't mention "bans and restrictions" they just mentioned a cooldown.
I, for one, am actually curious about OP's suggestion and if it could help the health of the contest. They responded here clarifying their stance, but it confused me personally.
https://anonrerising.dreamwidth.org/6444.html?thread=7418412#cmt7418412
https://anonrerising.dreamwidth.org/6444.html?thread=7418412#cmt7418412
NAYRT
One of the issues I see with putting limits on who can win/how often is that it will make players leery of entering certain festivals.
As others have said, if they *really* want to enter a certain festival, and there seem to be festivals that are more popular than others, more players would be leery of entering the festival just before the one they want to enter, which means fewer entries/potentially lower quality entries.
I personally, from what I can tell, don't think that the health of the contest needs help. If the OP was correct and there are about 120 unique entries per fest, even with potentially two slots being taken up, then I don't think people are really being scared off (at least not in the numbers that are typically implied).
One of the issues I see with putting limits on who can win/how often is that it will make players leery of entering certain festivals.
As others have said, if they *really* want to enter a certain festival, and there seem to be festivals that are more popular than others, more players would be leery of entering the festival just before the one they want to enter, which means fewer entries/potentially lower quality entries.
I personally, from what I can tell, don't think that the health of the contest needs help. If the OP was correct and there are about 120 unique entries per fest, even with potentially two slots being taken up, then I don't think people are really being scared off (at least not in the numbers that are typically implied).
AYRT. Yeah, it was rough... for Earth. Water won lol
I agree with you that Earth does have a lack of challengers but I'd still like to know how pebbles feel about potentially no battles in the future. Idk I feel like if it were me I'd be so bored and begging my team to agree to intentionally nerf us so that someone would be willing to try HAHAHA but everyone has different playstyles.
I agree with you that Earth does have a lack of challengers but I'd still like to know how pebbles feel about potentially no battles in the future. Idk I feel like if it were me I'd be so bored and begging my team to agree to intentionally nerf us so that someone would be willing to try HAHAHA but everyone has different playstyles.
Pebble here, our dom team has pretty strongly hinted they’re uninterested in battling due to the stress it placed on them last time. It sounds like they’re not even entertaining the question at the moment.
Personally I’m indifferent, I’m someone who always makes it to the leaderboard and I would go hard regardless of whether or not there was a battle lol. That might be why there’s not much of a push to battle in Earth? I don’t want to leak IFR numbers or anything but we have some individuals who exalt more every push (even profit pushes) than some OOFRs get with big chase prizes. It doesn’t make a difference to them whether or not there’s a battle going on, they’ll go hard anyway, so why add the extra stress to the dom team? If that makes sense.
Personally I’m indifferent, I’m someone who always makes it to the leaderboard and I would go hard regardless of whether or not there was a battle lol. That might be why there’s not much of a push to battle in Earth? I don’t want to leak IFR numbers or anything but we have some individuals who exalt more every push (even profit pushes) than some OOFRs get with big chase prizes. It doesn’t make a difference to them whether or not there’s a battle going on, they’ll go hard anyway, so why add the extra stress to the dom team? If that makes sense.
i think the broader issue is how the contest itself takes place. there's the whole "i'm saving my entry for a festival whose theme i prefer" if staff were to implement a handicap or cooldown on winners, but i do wish staff were better about repeat winners, especially in back-to-back festivals. this isnt just mythicalviper or brightmyth/888. people like talonmaster and illuna are massively popular (for good reason, and to be clear i like all of their skins/art) and it's nice to have their work available for such a low price and in larger quantities than any uma run, but it wouldn't be too hard for staff to pay attention to the names who show up in the winner's circle so often and make sure they aren't crowding out the smaller/less well known artists.
honestly after august got multi-banned i figured that was leading in to being hired as a site artist like pesticide and osiem were, with more of the aesthetics staff clearly like being incorporated into genes and apparel, but...
honestly after august got multi-banned i figured that was leading in to being hired as a site artist like pesticide and osiem were, with more of the aesthetics staff clearly like being incorporated into genes and apparel, but...
same anon, had a follow-up thought
i'm not coding-smart, so maybe this would be harder to track than i think, but what if it was specifically something like a 3-in-a-row fatigue? like, you can win up to 3 in a row, but after 3 in a row you cannot win in the next month's contest. so after 2 you can choose to sit one out and reset your streak or go for 3 and have the mandatory cooldown (so you're not intentionally skipping a large number of fest contests each year to time your eligibility for specific themes)
i'm not coding-smart, so maybe this would be harder to track than i think, but what if it was specifically something like a 3-in-a-row fatigue? like, you can win up to 3 in a row, but after 3 in a row you cannot win in the next month's contest. so after 2 you can choose to sit one out and reset your streak or go for 3 and have the mandatory cooldown (so you're not intentionally skipping a large number of fest contests each year to time your eligibility for specific themes)
nayrt
"Cooldown" and "restrictions" are logistically the same thing. You and OP can butter it up all you want, but at the end of it OP wants repeat winners to have restrictions other entrants don't, which is that they literally won't be able to enter contests.
Like another anon said, despite there being repeat winners there's still what, 120 entrants for Brightshine? Doesn't seem like anyone's too discouraged by repeated winners y'know? And again this is a CONTEST, not a raffle or lottery where it'd make sense to have restrictions. Also, think about this logically for a sec. EIGHTEEN winners getting restricted from the next contest. That's two pages of submissions OP wants GONE because apparently that's more fair. Imagine if Light had just 10 pages of submissions. Or EARTH getting idk 6 pages because artists are on cooldowns.
At this point most suggestions involving cooldowns/artist restrictions are nothingburgers. And yeah OP, I see you ignoring all the posts that point out why your suggestion has already been talked to death. To have a conversation on this you need to explain why your suggestion still stands despite all the points to the contrary. Don't stay in an echo chamber alright?
"Cooldown" and "restrictions" are logistically the same thing. You and OP can butter it up all you want, but at the end of it OP wants repeat winners to have restrictions other entrants don't, which is that they literally won't be able to enter contests.
Like another anon said, despite there being repeat winners there's still what, 120 entrants for Brightshine? Doesn't seem like anyone's too discouraged by repeated winners y'know? And again this is a CONTEST, not a raffle or lottery where it'd make sense to have restrictions. Also, think about this logically for a sec. EIGHTEEN winners getting restricted from the next contest. That's two pages of submissions OP wants GONE because apparently that's more fair. Imagine if Light had just 10 pages of submissions. Or EARTH getting idk 6 pages because artists are on cooldowns.
At this point most suggestions involving cooldowns/artist restrictions are nothingburgers. And yeah OP, I see you ignoring all the posts that point out why your suggestion has already been talked to death. To have a conversation on this you need to explain why your suggestion still stands despite all the points to the contrary. Don't stay in an echo chamber alright?
ayrt
yeah i get it i was being aggro but i really am just so tired of hearing about this or hearing how people should be left out just because they're good at what they do. i didn't say they suck as an artist, i said that they aren't at the skill level that staff is looking for. that doesn't mean they suck, it just means they're not up to that standard yet but they very well could be if they took the time to take that magnifying glass and look at past winners- don't put words in my mouth just because i was upset.
and im not white knighting for anyone im speaking my mind. im tired of people putting others down for winning. or at the very least trying to get them to stop making art in a fashion they find fun just because they're mad and sad they themselves didn't win.
yeah i get it i was being aggro but i really am just so tired of hearing about this or hearing how people should be left out just because they're good at what they do. i didn't say they suck as an artist, i said that they aren't at the skill level that staff is looking for. that doesn't mean they suck, it just means they're not up to that standard yet but they very well could be if they took the time to take that magnifying glass and look at past winners- don't put words in my mouth just because i was upset.
and im not white knighting for anyone im speaking my mind. im tired of people putting others down for winning. or at the very least trying to get them to stop making art in a fashion they find fun just because they're mad and sad they themselves didn't win.
Someone with a full sprite collection. Or with the gems to blow on a triple g1.
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