It's All Made Up, Anyway.

[mindlessflight]

Positivity Post
No Dumb Questions Post
Report a Thread
Rules
RESKIN
(Staff Approved Skin Tester!)

Flatview
Latest Page
Wanker Thread
Dom Thead
OT Thread

Comments

Re: not trying to stir anything

[(Anonymous)]

im not LGBT and don't visit those forum threads but do people say q* on flightrising? its like putting in your profile "im african-american but please don't call me n*" im not sure how to explain it but its so weird to ask when it doesnt happen on site uhh again i hope im saying this politely.

Re: not trying to stir anything

[(Anonymous)]

many people call themselves queer on fr that i've seen

Re: not trying to stir anything

[(Anonymous)]

oh

wow

okay sorry i honestly thought q* was a homophobic slur?? nvm

Re: not trying to stir anything

[(Anonymous)]

Its contentious to some people and perfectly innocuous to others and that's all i'll say on the subject.

Re: not trying to stir anything

[(Anonymous)]

The movement of the queer movement dates back DECADES of history of the word being used as an umbrella term. So while not wanting to be called queer is perfectly fine to call it a slur is an insult to the decades of people that use it as an identifier, especially as an inclusive one.

https://submalevolentgrace.tumblr.com/post/691852873402810368/if-i-say-the-queer-community-i-am-referring-to

https://dreaminginstasis.tumblr.com/post/142937384375/queer-is-not-a-slur

Re: not trying to stir anything

[(Anonymous)]

+1 let’s not say that queer only existed as a slur pre 2000s please, because that’s just erasing entire decades of history of actual queer people who coined the term.

Re: not trying to stir anything

[(Anonymous)]

^^^^THIS.

The wishes of people who don't want to be called queer themselves should be respected. But in the last ten years or so, people who want to exclude certain groups (bi, pan, or trans as the link says, but I've also seen it deployed against ace people, or basically anyone the excluder doesn't like) from the lbgt+ umbrella have pushed hard to get it classified as a slur which no one should use, ever.

Re: not trying to stir anything

[(Anonymous)]

So much this. Especially the first link. I'm not "q-slur," I'm /queer/. Stop taking the rock I've already stolen from those who threw it at me so that you can throw it at me from a different direction. I'm here, I'm queer, you need to get over it. (You as in the generalized you, no one specific, since someone's always gonna bad faith read things).

Re: not trying to stir anything

[(Anonymous)]

Fuckin THIS.

I love the term queer because it's inclusive and simple.

I'm trans masc, and I'm demisexual/aceflux/panromantic/poly-leaning, but I'm still figuring my shit out.

Queer is simple and encompassing, and feels good. I'll be damned if some zoomer is gonna take that from me.

Re: not trying to stir anything

[(Anonymous)]

"Queer is a slur" has recently become a thing because terfs hate the term, and honestly, 80% of the time, it's a terf dogwhistle.

They have picked up the phrase because queer is inclusive when used by folks who do not see it as a slur. Queer is an umbrella term, and means "anyone who isn't cishet"

(YES, this includes Aro/Ace people)

Terfs hate this inclusivity because it means trans women are included with lesbians, and terfs hate anything that include trans women.

Is queer still used as a slur? Absolutely.

Is it valid for LGBTQIA2SP+ folks to not want people to use that term for them? ABSOLUTELY.

Is it valid to tell folks NOT to use a term that has been largely accepted as a term that was used by us for decades, then reclaimed as our own again?

Absolutely not.

It's fine if you don't want to use that term, but dictating what other people call themselves is bullshit- and when people tell me I can't use queer for myself, I almost always assume they're a terf.

Re: not trying to stir anything

[(Anonymous)]

+1
DA - you know what's 'funniest' for me in the entire "q-slur" crowd? How I've been called a lesbo just for saying no to a date with a man, yet I've never seen the "q-slur" crowd shy away from using the l-slur or g-slur to refer to themselves, OP's example included...

Re: not trying to stir anything

[(Anonymous)]

"lesbian" and "gay"??

those don't have an equivalent history at all.
better example would be lesbians using/referring to the "d-slur," which similarly to "queer" is both reclaimed and a slur in the wrong hands.

Re: not trying to stir anything

[(Anonymous)]

Idk where you grew up but 'gay' and 'lesbian' have a major and protracted history as an insult and slur across the US and UK. Gay in particular was used for decades to mean bad, and lesbian was an outright dangerous thing to be called in a female school communities. Where I grew up, queer wasn't even on the radar as a slur. It was and is the academic term used for LGBTQ+ by LGBTQ+, among other things.

Re: not trying to stir anything

[(Anonymous)]

💯 I totally understand having personal trauma around the term and wanting to avoid it but broadcasting this preference and being preemptively defensive in doing so gives me terf vibes.

Re: not trying to stir anything

[(Anonymous)]

eehhhhh i get what youre saying but this, but people make similar statements regarding other things that make them uncomfortable. ive seen people request that ppl not use small text/bright colors when talking w/ them because they have eyestrain problems, or stating certain phobias im advance to avoid stuff like trypophobia, thalassophobia, etc etc in skins or art. being "preemptively defensive" about those things is fairly standard if you know they cause distress when directed at you.

i dont really know enough about this persons Deal to make a solid decision on if theyre a terf or not but it feels like theres a lot of extrapolation/assumption happening here. and yeah its an anon comm, this place is for shittalking, yadda yadda but i can understand why someone would make that kinda statement without being a terf/transphobe/etc. feels kinda weirdchamp to make big accusations with minimal context

Re: not trying to stir anything

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt i'm not making accusations. i'm just saying it gives me terf vibes. it's certainly very possible they're not a terf but the q-slur thing is a terf dogwhistle and it's worth noting that. i've seen "lesbian, not queer" used as a terf t-shirt slogan.

Re: not trying to stir anything

[(Anonymous)]

Huh, it's funny you say it's a TERF thing because this person's profile also says...

"I will not buy dragons with the silhouette scroll applied to them"

Since silhouette scrolls often indicate trans dragons, it's a little sus. 😅

Re: not trying to stir anything

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

HA. I didn't even see that on their profile.

I hate to say "I knew it" but.... I knew it.

Re: not trying to stir anything

[(Anonymous)]

Not trying to be rude but it feels kind of odd for you to say "there's nothing wrong with people not wanting to be referred to as queer" and then immediately agree with someone who jumps to the conclusion that op is definitely a TERF for something completely unrelated. Like, maybe they just don't like having the extra icon on their lair page?
And to be clear I don't think queer is a slur. It just feels like a lot of people who are in the same boat as me are really vitriolic towards people who just don't want to be called queer, which is like... fine and normal? I know in my personal experience people still used it in a cruel way towards me growing up and while I don't care I can see why people might feel uncomfortable with even saying it. Idk I'm not trying to pick a fight I just feel like we can extend compassion to other members of our community without assuming an expression of vulnerability is actually something done with malicious intent *shrug*

Re: not trying to stir anything

[(Anonymous)]

I definitely also found that sus, like... is the tiny bit of clutter really so objectionable that you not only won't buy dragons based on it, you'll also broadcast that fact in your bio? At best those are some odd priorities.

Re: not trying to stir anything

[(Anonymous)]

I don't find it as sus paired with the offspring list part... But it does look off

Re: not trying to stir anything

[(Anonymous)]

i appreciate your honesty and openness on wanting to understand. this has been a pretty divisive topic in the LGBT community in the past few decades but to boil it down a LOT it can be loosely summarized as:

- the term "queer" was commonly used as an insult against LGBT people pre-2000s.
- however, some LGBT people would use the term to describe themselves. the terms "dyke" and "fag" were used very similarly, in that they are offensive terms that some lesbians and gay men used for themselves.
- post-2000s the term "gay" became more of a commonly used insult than "queer," although this change can also be regional thing.
- as a newer generation of LGBT people began to understand their identities some found that the commonly understood labels of lesbian/gay/bisexual/transgender did not fit with their experiences/identities.
- these people looked for a general term meaning "not heterosexual and/or not cisgender," and for them the term "queer" meant that. in doing so they would "reclaim" it, turning it from an insult to a word that means their identity or community.
- however, for some other people the term "queer" is irrevocably associated with its pre-2000s usage as an insult, and dont feel comfortable being called that.

a lot of this is centered around the american gay rights movement(s) and obviously has different definitions for different people, especially outside of the USA. some don't think it's a slur, some do, some don't care too much either way. its a lot of identity politics that have been spread out over many years and many people and therefore i'm sure that there are some people who will disagree with my explanation.

tl;dr its a word that means a lot of things for different people, so just respect how people say they want to be called.

Re: not trying to stir anything

[(Anonymous)]

Good summation. Anyway, yeah, that was my thought: people generally don't have to indicate 'don't do something that would be unambiguously culturally regarded as calling me a slur', but if, at least in some cases, cultural norms aren't on your side and someone could innocently call you something that you'd consider hurtful, a warning might be merited in that case.

Re: not trying to stir anything

[(Anonymous)]

this is so well-said! thank you, anon.

Re: not trying to stir anything

[(Anonymous)]

Queer studies originated as the academic term in the 1990s (coined by a lesbian), as did 'we're here, we're queer, get used to it'. It was not exclusively a slur pre-2000s - it was reclaimed long before the latest generation of LGBTQ. Some of the earliest evidence we have of it being a preferred personal term is from the 1930s, and as a community term from the 1980s. That's ~40 years.