ayrt that's very valid and i'm glad you're bringing this perspective bc one of the biggest things that worries me in activist movements is people tearing each other apart. i think there is enough oddness in this incidence that it makes the OP suspicious.
this might be veering into semantic nitpicking as well but i think things just ARE dogwhistles regardless of who's using them or what context they're using them in. for example, 88 is a nazi dogwhistle. this does NOT mean that people born in 1988 who use the numbers in their username are all nazis, because we can use context clues to determine whether it's being used as a dogwhistle by that person or not.
lesbians specifically saying "q-slur" instead of queer and using the phrasing structure of "lesbian, not q-slur" is an even stronger dogwhistle than 88. i say "stronger" because the vast majority of people saying 88 do not intend any nazi context, but i would say in a significant percentage of incidences of people saying "lesbian, not q-slur," it is being used as a dogwhistle. like i said in another comment, it is so common that it's a popular terf t-shirt slogan.
the "strength" of this dogwhistle is also why i don't feel thaaaat bad that there's an accusation attached to pointing out that it's a dogwhistle. the fact that this person used that specific phrasing and made it the very first thing in their profile is suspicious.
"How are they supposed to set that boundary without saying anything remotely along the lines of that?"
this is a good question, and one i thought of as well. i guess i just have to wonder how many times it comes up, so that the person feels like it has to be the very first line on their profile.
as one of the tumblr links someone else posted says, when i say "the queer community" i am talking about people who identify as queer. it does not include people who do not identify as queer. i can see it coming up in occasional dialogues, for example when i'm talking to someone and say "it's nice to talk to other queer people," thereby implying they are also queer. so in theory someone might want to preempt that situation.
but again, i have ask -- why did the person choose to make it the very first thing on their profile? is it truly happening so often to them that it's such a priority? maybe! but it's still weird. wouldn't it be weird if someone just put "eighty-eight" as the first thing in their profile? the number by itself is perfectly innocuous. but why would they put it first?
if they said something like "note: i have personal trauma around the word qu*** and prefer not to be referred to with it, thanks" somewhere later in their profile i wouldn't consider it suspicious at all. so there is a way to do it while lessening its dogwhistle-ness.
I was kinkinda hoping to avoid this flavor of discourse but since we're down this road anyway, might as well state something for the record that muddies the waters even more:
There absolutely is a segment of people who react to any request not to call someone queer - even phrased poliely as in your example - as a boundry not worth respecting. It's happened to me, in fact! (I'm not triggered by 'queer' but its not something i'm jazzed about people i dont know well calling me either) but some people have acted like me saying "hey i don't like being called queer actually" is a personal attack.
So while i understand terfs do use the phrase, and the wariness, i can also (and have seen) see similar blunt phrases coming from non-terfs who've had their boundries stomped on too many times before and are sick of being nice
I understand where you're coming from, but it's kind of hard for me to wrap my head around. If I put myself in their perspective, I tend to think kind of like "If I were uncomfortable with this word, and had politely asked people in the past, and they did not respect it to begin with, I would definitely slowly be less polite/meek and more front and center and assertive about it!" From my perspective I feel like if someone has something like that front and center in their profile, I would assume it's more someone trying to help someone to see a boundary they've had stepped on over and over. But honestly I do understand what you're saying and I appreciate your perspective on it, sorry for all the walls of text lol. I should probably stop going back and forth since this is an FR drama comm and not meant for this kind of discussion so I hope you have a good night!
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anonrerising2022-08-02 07:34 pm
Re: not trying to stir anything
(Anonymous) 2022-10-16 11:29 pm (UTC)(link)this might be veering into semantic nitpicking as well but i think things just ARE dogwhistles regardless of who's using them or what context they're using them in. for example, 88 is a nazi dogwhistle. this does NOT mean that people born in 1988 who use the numbers in their username are all nazis, because we can use context clues to determine whether it's being used as a dogwhistle by that person or not.
lesbians specifically saying "q-slur" instead of queer and using the phrasing structure of "lesbian, not q-slur" is an even stronger dogwhistle than 88. i say "stronger" because the vast majority of people saying 88 do not intend any nazi context, but i would say in a significant percentage of incidences of people saying "lesbian, not q-slur," it is being used as a dogwhistle. like i said in another comment, it is so common that it's a popular terf t-shirt slogan.
the "strength" of this dogwhistle is also why i don't feel thaaaat bad that there's an accusation attached to pointing out that it's a dogwhistle. the fact that this person used that specific phrasing and made it the very first thing in their profile is suspicious.
"How are they supposed to set that boundary without saying anything remotely along the lines of that?"
this is a good question, and one i thought of as well. i guess i just have to wonder how many times it comes up, so that the person feels like it has to be the very first line on their profile.
as one of the tumblr links someone else posted says, when i say "the queer community" i am talking about people who identify as queer. it does not include people who do not identify as queer. i can see it coming up in occasional dialogues, for example when i'm talking to someone and say "it's nice to talk to other queer people," thereby implying they are also queer. so in theory someone might want to preempt that situation.
but again, i have ask -- why did the person choose to make it the very first thing on their profile? is it truly happening so often to them that it's such a priority? maybe! but it's still weird. wouldn't it be weird if someone just put "eighty-eight" as the first thing in their profile? the number by itself is perfectly innocuous. but why would they put it first?
if they said something like "note: i have personal trauma around the word qu*** and prefer not to be referred to with it, thanks" somewhere later in their profile i wouldn't consider it suspicious at all. so there is a way to do it while lessening its dogwhistle-ness.
Re: not trying to stir anything
(Anonymous) 2022-10-17 12:20 am (UTC)(link)I was kinkinda hoping to avoid this flavor of discourse but since we're down this road anyway, might as well state something for the record that muddies the waters even more:
There absolutely is a segment of people who react to any request not to call someone queer - even phrased poliely as in your example - as a boundry not worth respecting. It's happened to me, in fact! (I'm not triggered by 'queer' but its not something i'm jazzed about people i dont know well calling me either) but some people have acted like me saying "hey i don't like being called queer actually" is a personal attack.
So while i understand terfs do use the phrase, and the wariness, i can also (and have seen) see similar blunt phrases coming from non-terfs who've had their boundries stomped on too many times before and are sick of being nice
Re: not trying to stir anything
(Anonymous) 2022-10-17 01:07 am (UTC)(link)I understand where you're coming from, but it's kind of hard for me to wrap my head around. If I put myself in their perspective, I tend to think kind of like "If I were uncomfortable with this word, and had politely asked people in the past, and they did not respect it to begin with, I would definitely slowly be less polite/meek and more front and center and assertive about it!" From my perspective I feel like if someone has something like that front and center in their profile, I would assume it's more someone trying to help someone to see a boundary they've had stepped on over and over. But honestly I do understand what you're saying and I appreciate your perspective on it, sorry for all the walls of text lol. I should probably stop going back and forth since this is an FR drama comm and not meant for this kind of discussion so I hope you have a good night!