not a respond to anyone in particular but I just want to say THANK YOU GUYS for this thread. so many people are clearly faking disorders on FR, and I know other people know they're faking disorders on FR, but you can't say anything about it anywhere because someone will cry ableism. I've seen people say this isn't as big as a problem as people make it out to be, but it is. fuck, it is. I have a friend with a plethora of physical disorders she's too scared to tell anyone about because she's afraid people will think she's just one of those "TikTok attention seekers". I saw a video someone recorded of their younger (as in, child) siblings pretending to have Tourette's because of TikToks they were watching making it seem like the cool and trendy disorder of the week. like what the hell. sorry this shit just really pisses me off and it really bothers me how we let people get away with it so brazenly sometimes
anyways on a lighter note, one time I stumbled upon a profile that had one of those gray buttons and nothing else, and the button was "DIVORCED". thought that was hilarious lmao why is there even a "divorced" button to begin with
there are SO many people in my flight's discord faking DID and it drives me up a wall. But I can't say anything about it because I'll be yelled at for ableism. DID is exceptionally rare disorder and the split personalities certainly do not manifest as youtubers you discovered two years ago, but lets pretend this discord has ten people with DID as if that's actually going to happen and that's likely and that the person with solely minecraft youtuber alters is not faking, sure.
I'm not against self-diagnosing. Mental healthcare in the USA is expensive and often unobtainable and many times self-diagnosing can help you start to find coping mechanisms from sources meant for people with a confirmed diagnosis that can help you hold on until you can get the proper help yourself. But it feels like so many young people - particularly on FR - are doing it because they feel it will give them an instant into community and connection and make them special. It's hard to condemn them for wanting this because to be honest don't we all but it is so hard to not be annoyed. I only hope they'll grow out of it.
NAYRT, but right?! there's a lot of creativity going into some of these elaborate facades, and that creativity should be nourished, instead of wielded as this cudgel with which to say "I'm more valid than you so my opinions are sexier & more correct," like the other anon was talking about. wanting to be paid attention to & cared for & loved is very Human. but "attention seeking" has been maligned as a personal failing, rather than a need for attention/care that deserves to be met. it's just such a shame that, instead of getting (professional/medical/supportive) attention for whatever conditions ARE going on with these fakers (because they do deserve that support & care), they decide to take to the Internet & spread misinformation that reduces severe, legitimate conditions down to a fashion aesthetic & a set of roleplay character cards. roles to be filled - protector/trauma holder/little. even "faceclaims" - i'm the real JoJo Adventure TM, don't reality check me & doubles DNI. BLECH i don't even like repeating it, but i think it is important to talk about. i know seeing "dissenters" can reinforce the insular nature of these types of communities - "see, the rest of the world doesn't care about us, only We know what is true and right" - but i have also spoken directly with "former fakers" who told me that they felt encouraged to speak the truth after seeing metered, reasonable discussion between others who explained the harm caused by spreading misinformation, and reassuring "current fakers" that it's OK to change your mind, and that you still deserve community & care, just in a healthier way than sticking with people who encourage you to be "sicker" rather than exploring the nuances behind what might be causing ill health or "bad behavior" (which i put in scare quotes because disruptive/unwanted/unhealthy behaviors are very often just symptoms of unmet needs). ANYWAY. bringing it back to Flight Rising, i've seen discussions about DID pop up on the saltminerising tumblr before, including someone saying like, "i hope staff recognizes systems!! we should be able to have an alt account for every guy :3" and "hahaha i was being rude & nasty to people on the forums yesterday but it totally wAsN't Me, aren't i so quirky?" i think perhaps a not-insignificant portion of the regular commenters there might fall into Faker/Oversharer territory themselves, because you get responses like "Flight Rising not letting me have 12 accounts is ableism! reporting people for being multis is like calling the cops!" and other such wild takes. puts a bad taste in my mouth.
I wish I could help these people, but I know it's not my job and none of my business. Plus, my energy is better spent elsewhere. Still, it makes me sad thinking about them suffering in toxic social groups with unaddressed mental health issues :(
replying to myself to say that i'm one of the people who took "kinning" to mean "i am a fan & relate to this character" - didn't realize that it's popularly taken to the "i AM this character & not even the original creator knows him like i do because he IS me" level, RIP (though that's not to say we can't "take" a character away from their original creator & write them "better" in our fanworks, lol).
i'm not in the "MCYT/minecraft youtuber" circles, but i read some wild stuff recently about how one of the artists working on some MCYT-related project had a discord server for that project where another member one day suddenly "developed an alter" of that artist (who i'll just call A for Artist because i'm having trouble finding the source of the story) and was posting in the discord "acting like" A, with a display name like A's, et cetera. A obviously was very discomfited by this, and when A expressed discomfort and asked that person to stop (because who would want to be impersonated by someone in their own discord server?), the other people in the server started calling A ableist because "the person with the A alter can't help who they are" and such. this snowballed into an entire receipts-type post calling for A to be removed from the project because "they're just an artist so they're easy to replace, and this ableism shouldn't be tolerated." so, a real social media campaign against an artist for... not wanting to be impersonated? that's not helping anybody.
Yeah, the previous version of this around 2015 used to be "I'm reincarnated/kin of A from a past life and I'm discovering my own memories as A"... And meanwhile A is still alive and well and posting on YT. Somewhat unsurprisingly a not insignificant amount of these were sock accounts coming from people coordinating on KF, who would then contact the person being impersonated and use the spectacle to push rhetoric like 'this is an example of how tans people are delusional'. It was gross. I don't think that's the same thing as what you're describing in this server with a mcyt alter, but it's similar enough for frysquint.gif
God no, I hate the current situation but I don't want to to back to people thinking that they are 4real Sans Skeleton kin and have "memories" from their past character life in an alternate dimension... The amount of bullying people tried to justify with this was insane. I saw one person in their 20s kinning invader zim, and calling various people abusive for "drawing him doing things he didn't consent to", such as... wearing a different wig and holding hands with Marvin the Martian.
I see some younger millennials and older gen z using kin as shorthand for 'I identity with x character', but the whole history of people using kinning as a bullying tactic and transphobia being a big reason for its more widespread use in 2014-2017 leaves a super gross taste in my mouth whenever I see it. The 'I am angel/sans/plant/wolf/ kin' bios in 2016 you could directly trace to people on 4chan and KF that were creating these accounts to be incredibly shitty about trans people, and it's still a thing they pull out on twitter from time to time. If you see an 'info' post about catkin going around on twt that's literally a thing created in a 4chan thread to fuck with y'all.
I'll be honest, I never saw the transphobic problems from KF and 4chan. But maybe I was lucky enough to get out before that started.
I mostly just saw issues where it was being used for idiotic fandom bullying.
"Don't talk to me if you rp or write about this character, because you're writing about me." Is not really a great argument when someone else made the character.
To be fair, tumblr during that period and earlier (say 2013-2014) was pretty bad in general. Remember those preachy holier-than-thou PSAs with danganronpa characters? Yeah. There were a LOT of 'my opinion is more valid than yours' bullying over liking/disliking a ship or problematic character etc. and kinning is just in the crossfire because people who do this shit happens to have kin bios and use it as an excuse.
I don't think kinning itself is the problem - it's just roleplaying in fancy packaging IMO. People just took things too far and happen to be associated with it. I don't know much about the 4chan stuff to really comment on that.
"The 'I am angel/sans/plant/wolf/ kin' bios in 2016 you could directly trace to people on 4chan and KF that were creating these accounts to be incredibly shitty about trans people, and it's still a thing they pull out on twitter from time to time. If you see an 'info' post about catkin going around on twt that's literally a thing created in a 4chan thread to fuck with y'all."
Probably a late response, but thank you for bringing this up! I tried talking about it in a (non-FR) server I was in a few days ago and people thought I was being mean or transphobic despite being trans myself. It made me uncomfortable, so I left. A lot of these animal/object kin identities have origins in 4chan trolling. IIRC the first incident was using "clovergender" as a way to sneak pedophilia and troll Tumblr and Twitter trans communities, and the other kin stuff followed suit.
It is true that there are instances of 4chan trolling via kin and making up genders but reading this thread I'm sort of scratching my head because kinning existed long before then and it feels a bit disingenuous to treat it as such. Like, from what I vaguely remember kinning has it's roots in people identifying as elves and then otherkin was coined to refer to non-elfkin. Kinning in reference to fictional characters is relatively new. I remember when the wider otherkin community considered it a bastardization of the culture (and maybe they still do but I wouldn't know, I dont go there anymore). IDK what the catkin thread is about but dear god people have seriously been thinking of themselves as kitty cats with 100% sincerity for decades now.
Holy wall of text batman, I guess I have more data on this than I thought. Even with a lot of the screenshots I was looking for gone missing. :/
Sorry you experienced that nonny. I'm kind of boggled that people have somehow forgotten 4chan and KF's involvement in this, as it was pretty fucking common knowledge last I looked. Nonnies above had some valid questions about the origins of kinning and confusion over why a lot of people view it as transphobic, so I'll answer that here as well.
While there was definitely precedent for kinning before 4chan/KF began using the concept in a transphobic astroturfing campaign, it was originally a much more niche set of beliefs most often found in small communities that were often adjacent to the furry fandom. This is the Therian/Otherkin community I'm talking about here, their definition of 'otherkin' was and still is pretty different than the idea of 'kinning a fictional character'. A lot of the community was somewhat insular, and my understanding is that on the whole, members generally discouraged people from using those terms outside Therian/Otherkin community spaces.
"A lot of these animal/object kin identities have origins in 4chan trolling. IIRC the first incident was using "clovergender" as a way to sneak pedophilia and troll Tumblr and Twitter trans communities, and the other kin stuff followed suit."
Yep. This is one of the more well documented examples of KF farms doing active astroturfing to on tumblr that we have, though of course there were a hell of a lot more. I think more of the kin accounts and concepts created by these people were about painting transgender people as delusional and wanting to 'become animals/demons', than pedophiles, but there was eventually a push towards making accounts where the "user" was kin with various underage fictional characters and then would immediately use the account to solicit minors for SRP. BTW fuuuck imgur for deleting the screenshots someone had collected of this back in 2016, fuck you imgur.
Slight tangent, but there was a later version of this with the same "transphobic people are predatory" rhetoric that popped up somewhere between 2016-2020, where suddenly it was 'I'm mentally 16 but I'm actually 25...' Slightly different thing and similar situation to kin, where once the idea was out there via astroturfing, there were some more innocent fans on tumblr and twitter that just... thought the idea of saying you were mentally a minor in your 20s was appealing. (This is, uh much more problematic than identifying with Sans the Skeleton at 25, for obvious reasons. While I'm somewhat sympathetic with the idea of someone not feeling their age and thinking that are actually a minor at 25, I also have some really gross stories of people using this idea to justify having absolutely no boundaries with minors in discord. Anyways, back to kinning.)
I think the majority of the kinning astroturf campaign from 4chan turned into slightly less malicious but still transphobic trolling 'for the lolz', like plantkin, real person kin, ect, and by this time the idea had become somewhat popularized to the point where a lot of younger users adopted the idea wholesale.
Nonny above with this comment: "Same. Honestly, I think 4chan and KF bastardized an odd form of expression used by people online because they realized that they could hurt multiple groups by doing it for laughs, and it lingers. Now, anyone that did it innocently is tied to 4chan and transphobia."
You are correct that 4chan and KF were interested in hurting multiple groups, including anyone they saw as furry/autistic/queer, but the kin astroturfing campaign used a lot of its rhetoric specifically to attack and delegitimize trans people. I think a lot of people just forgot that 4chan and KF's transphobic trolling is why and how this extremely niche concept was suddenly exploding on tumblr in 2014-15, and with a pretty different definition than the one the established Otherkin community had been using for over a decade.
There's a really decent lecture online from 2013 (note the date) that goes over the online culture and ideas of Otherkin/Therians. This video has a lot of in-depth documentation, empathy and curiosity, and I highly recommend it to anyone that's curious about the history of kinning/otherkin/therians:
https://youtu.be/ZMEkuOW5pjs?si=Nys4jln6lqea0S8d
If you don't feel like watching the video but want a quick look at how the Therian/Otherkin community in 2013 was discussing and thinking about these type of identities and beliefs, the comment section on this video is a pretty good window into that.
I wasn't in any of these communities but afaik this lecture is considered to be a well researched and accurate description of what the Therian and Otherkin communities were like in 2013, and the experiences of the people that were using these terms. From all my interactions with them and what I've read, (though of course the community is not a monolith, you're going to find some disagreement) on the whole they were and continue to be pretty fucking unhappy with the fact that 'Otherkin", and "Kinning" suddenly exploded to widespread use on tumblr as a result of transphobic astroturfing, and consider the casual use of 'kinning' to be an insulting bastardization of their own beliefs. (Take of that what you will.)
I've learned about this mostly from talking to people in the community, but there's also plenty of documentation about it, here's one example:
https://forums.therian-guide.com/Thread-Therian-Otherkin-Terms Last updated 2018:
"Otherkin: A person that identifies as being, in part or whole (non-physically), one or more non-human creatures or beings on an integral and personal level. Otherkin cannot choose their kintypes. Otherkin is also an umbrella term for otherkin, therians and fictiokin."
"Coping Linkers: People who use non-human entities as a way to cope with depression, anxiety, and general day-to-day troubles. They are not considered the same as otherkin or therians despite vague similarities, as they have chosen their identities. The name was changed from copingkin to copinglinkers to cement that they are not associated with the otherkin community.
Theriotype: What a therian identifies as being on a spiritual and personal level. A therian may identify as one or more animals as their theriotype. E.g. a therian may have a wolf theriotype, meaning they identify as a wolf.
Kintype: What an otherkin identifies as E.g. Dragonkin means identifying as a dragon, wolfkin as a wolf.
Kin: Shortened form of Otherkin, not a verb. You can’t ‘kin’ something, and ‘kinning’ isn’t a thing. “My kin/theriotype is (x)”, or “I am (x) kin” are correct ways of phrasing it. “I otherkin across the street” makes no sense."
Terms and ideas of course continue to evolve, and there are plenty of people that are either unaware of 4chan's extremely transphobic involvement in popularizing kinning fictional characters on tumblr, or just don't care. Which... honestly, like, fine? Ideas and language evolve, and if you're not using it to maliciously bully people or use it to try and convince other people that trans people are delusional, I guess I don't really think you're doing a great harm to anybody by using the term. It's just been a very, very recent tool of transphobic rhetoric, and the community that it came from less than 10 years ago is also extremely unhappy with people using it causally as a shorthand for having an extreme attachment to fictional characters such as Sans the Skeleton/ thinking you're Sans the Skeleton on the astral plane. (Take your pick.)
Nonny above with this comment: I mean, are they though? I get how some people might have their perspective of kinning soured by those malicious instances but it's a bit of a stretch to say they're now tied to 4chan and transphobia.
Sorry, but even if you are unaware of the history behind it, saying that you're "kinning a fictional character" is absolutely, definitely tied and strongly associated with 4chan and transphobia, and that's what a lot of people will think of upon seeing it. I'm not equating this to someone putting "I'm kin with Sans the Skeleton" being actively transphobic, just that the recent history behind it absolutely is. It's... context.
it doesnt help that in online social justice-oriented spaces generally there's an overall notion that anything you say is more valid if you can attach your lived experience as a marginalized person to it. in more toxic instances this can lead to peoples' opinions being dismissed or their negative emotions or experiences being downplayed because they don't confess to having some kind of trauma, disorder, marginalized identity, etc. so of course, in such a situation, young people expressing a normal need for emotional validation or just wanting to be heard might attempt to adopt identities in order to fit in and be taken seriously.
This is also an excellent point! I've definitely seen this kind of thing happen and I totally agree it leads to adopting marginalized identities that may not necessarily be accurate so as to be involved and heard. I think FR definitely leans into a social justice vibe, not that that's a bad thing, but I do think it can lead to things like you discussed.
It's a discord bot that lets you create proxies, which you can then assign to specific text indicators, for example- say I make one for one of my dragons.
I'd set it to "D:text"
Whenever I type in something like "D: Good morning!"
It'll show up in discord like Dragon: Good morning!
The text I entered is automatically deleted by the bot, so it looks like my dragon said good morning, not me.
Like this: https://i.gyazo.com/c398e3a829775df6c6d2a8b20fdaf27a.png
There's another bot called Tupperbox that does the same thing, and folks usually use it for RP- like in my example.
You also can't block the pluralkit proxies, so one person with a handful of these can make a server unusable. Most of the time it's obnoxious but not malicious, basically just watching someone rp in a space not meant for rp. Occasionally you see people using it as a tool for harassment, since they know they can get around being blocked this way.
Holy shit, which flight are you in that the discord is filled with people like that? I changed to a flight with an older demographic and I don't really see people like that in the discord (the dom one at least). I did saw someone literally talking to themselves with their alters in either one of the all-flights servers or my old flight's server so it seems to be much more common among the younger folks, which makes sense I guess. Dumb teens want attention and we were at that point once.
right, totally Not a performance roleplaying with oneself in a public venue hoping to be noticed. yowza. it hurts too seeing how many people in these groups are in their late twenties/early thirties still engaging in these types of behaviors.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
Re: Unpopular Opinion...
(Anonymous) 2023-08-09 10:56 pm (UTC)(link)anyways on a lighter note, one time I stumbled upon a profile that had one of those gray buttons and nothing else, and the button was "DIVORCED". thought that was hilarious lmao why is there even a "divorced" button to begin with
Re: Unpopular Opinion...
(Anonymous) 2023-08-10 03:32 pm (UTC)(link)I'm not against self-diagnosing. Mental healthcare in the USA is expensive and often unobtainable and many times self-diagnosing can help you start to find coping mechanisms from sources meant for people with a confirmed diagnosis that can help you hold on until you can get the proper help yourself. But it feels like so many young people - particularly on FR - are doing it because they feel it will give them an instant into community and connection and make them special. It's hard to condemn them for wanting this because to be honest don't we all but it is so hard to not be annoyed. I only hope they'll grow out of it.
Re: Unpopular Opinion...
(Anonymous) 2023-08-10 04:36 pm (UTC)(link)Re: Unpopular Opinion...
(Anonymous) 2023-08-10 08:22 pm (UTC)(link)wanting to be paid attention to & cared for & loved is very Human. but "attention seeking" has been maligned as a personal failing, rather than a need for attention/care that deserves to be met. it's just such a shame that, instead of getting (professional/medical/supportive) attention for whatever conditions ARE going on with these fakers (because they do deserve that support & care), they decide to take to the Internet & spread misinformation that reduces severe, legitimate conditions down to a fashion aesthetic & a set of roleplay character cards. roles to be filled - protector/trauma holder/little. even "faceclaims" - i'm the real JoJo Adventure TM, don't reality check me & doubles DNI. BLECH i don't even like repeating it, but i think it is important to talk about. i know seeing "dissenters" can reinforce the insular nature of these types of communities - "see, the rest of the world doesn't care about us, only We know what is true and right" - but i have also spoken directly with "former fakers" who told me that they felt encouraged to speak the truth after seeing metered, reasonable discussion between others who explained the harm caused by spreading misinformation, and reassuring "current fakers" that it's OK to change your mind, and that you still deserve community & care, just in a healthier way than sticking with people who encourage you to be "sicker" rather than exploring the nuances behind what might be causing ill health or "bad behavior" (which i put in scare quotes because disruptive/unwanted/unhealthy behaviors are very often just symptoms of unmet needs).
ANYWAY. bringing it back to Flight Rising, i've seen discussions about DID pop up on the saltminerising tumblr before, including someone saying like, "i hope staff recognizes systems!! we should be able to have an alt account for every guy :3" and "hahaha i was being rude & nasty to people on the forums yesterday but it totally wAsN't Me, aren't i so quirky?"
i think perhaps a not-insignificant portion of the regular commenters there might fall into Faker/Oversharer territory themselves, because you get responses like "Flight Rising not letting me have 12 accounts is ableism! reporting people for being multis is like calling the cops!" and other such wild takes.
puts a bad taste in my mouth.
Re: Unpopular Opinion...
(Anonymous) 2023-08-10 09:51 pm (UTC)(link)Re: Unpopular Opinion...
(Anonymous) 2023-08-11 07:48 pm (UTC)(link)i'm not in the "MCYT/minecraft youtuber" circles, but i read some wild stuff recently about how one of the artists working on some MCYT-related project had a discord server for that project where another member one day suddenly "developed an alter" of that artist (who i'll just call A for Artist because i'm having trouble finding the source of the story) and was posting in the discord "acting like" A, with a display name like A's, et cetera. A obviously was very discomfited by this, and when A expressed discomfort and asked that person to stop (because who would want to be impersonated by someone in their own discord server?), the other people in the server started calling A ableist because "the person with the A alter can't help who they are" and such. this snowballed into an entire receipts-type post calling for A to be removed from the project because "they're just an artist so they're easy to replace, and this ableism shouldn't be tolerated." so, a real social media campaign against an artist for... not wanting to be impersonated? that's not helping anybody.
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(Anonymous) 2023-08-11 08:15 pm (UTC)(link)Re: Unpopular Opinion...
(Anonymous) 2023-08-12 12:30 am (UTC)(link)That isn't how it fucking works, that's how you make people lose respect for legitimate disorders.
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(Anonymous) 2023-08-12 05:38 pm (UTC)(link)Re: Unpopular Opinion...
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(Anonymous) 2023-08-11 03:58 am (UTC)(link)I see some younger millennials and older gen z using kin as shorthand for 'I identity with x character', but the whole history of people using kinning as a bullying tactic and transphobia being a big reason for its more widespread use in 2014-2017 leaves a super gross taste in my mouth whenever I see it. The 'I am angel/sans/plant/wolf/ kin' bios in 2016 you could directly trace to people on 4chan and KF that were creating these accounts to be incredibly shitty about trans people, and it's still a thing they pull out on twitter from time to time. If you see an 'info' post about catkin going around on twt that's literally a thing created in a 4chan thread to fuck with y'all.
Re: Unpopular Opinion...
(Anonymous) 2023-08-11 04:54 pm (UTC)(link)I mostly just saw issues where it was being used for idiotic fandom bullying.
"Don't talk to me if you rp or write about this character, because you're writing about me." Is not really a great argument when someone else made the character.
Re: Unpopular Opinion...
(Anonymous) 2023-08-11 05:21 pm (UTC)(link)I don't think kinning itself is the problem - it's just roleplaying in fancy packaging IMO. People just took things too far and happen to be associated with it. I don't know much about the 4chan stuff to really comment on that.
Re: Unpopular Opinion...
(Anonymous) 2023-08-19 08:50 pm (UTC)(link)Probably a late response, but thank you for bringing this up! I tried talking about it in a (non-FR) server I was in a few days ago and people thought I was being mean or transphobic despite being trans myself. It made me uncomfortable, so I left. A lot of these animal/object kin identities have origins in 4chan trolling. IIRC the first incident was using "clovergender" as a way to sneak pedophilia and troll Tumblr and Twitter trans communities, and the other kin stuff followed suit.
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(Anonymous) 2023-08-20 06:54 am (UTC)(link)Holy wall of text batman, I guess I have more data on this than I thought. Even with a lot of the screenshots I was looking for gone missing. :/
Sorry you experienced that nonny. I'm kind of boggled that people have somehow forgotten 4chan and KF's involvement in this, as it was pretty fucking common knowledge last I looked. Nonnies above had some valid questions about the origins of kinning and confusion over why a lot of people view it as transphobic, so I'll answer that here as well.
While there was definitely precedent for kinning before 4chan/KF began using the concept in a transphobic astroturfing campaign, it was originally a much more niche set of beliefs most often found in small communities that were often adjacent to the furry fandom. This is the Therian/Otherkin community I'm talking about here, their definition of 'otherkin' was and still is pretty different than the idea of 'kinning a fictional character'. A lot of the community was somewhat insular, and my understanding is that on the whole, members generally discouraged people from using those terms outside Therian/Otherkin community spaces.
"A lot of these animal/object kin identities have origins in 4chan trolling. IIRC the first incident was using "clovergender" as a way to sneak pedophilia and troll Tumblr and Twitter trans communities, and the other kin stuff followed suit."
Yep. This is one of the more well documented examples of KF farms doing active astroturfing to on tumblr that we have, though of course there were a hell of a lot more. I think more of the kin accounts and concepts created by these people were about painting transgender people as delusional and wanting to 'become animals/demons', than pedophiles, but there was eventually a push towards making accounts where the "user" was kin with various underage fictional characters and then would immediately use the account to solicit minors for SRP. BTW fuuuck imgur for deleting the screenshots someone had collected of this back in 2016, fuck you imgur.
Slight tangent, but there was a later version of this with the same "transphobic people are predatory" rhetoric that popped up somewhere between 2016-2020, where suddenly it was 'I'm mentally 16 but I'm actually 25...' Slightly different thing and similar situation to kin, where once the idea was out there via astroturfing, there were some more innocent fans on tumblr and twitter that just... thought the idea of saying you were mentally a minor in your 20s was appealing. (This is, uh much more problematic than identifying with Sans the Skeleton at 25, for obvious reasons. While I'm somewhat sympathetic with the idea of someone not feeling their age and thinking that are actually a minor at 25, I also have some really gross stories of people using this idea to justify having absolutely no boundaries with minors in discord. Anyways, back to kinning.)
I think the majority of the kinning astroturf campaign from 4chan turned into slightly less malicious but still transphobic trolling 'for the lolz', like plantkin, real person kin, ect, and by this time the idea had become somewhat popularized to the point where a lot of younger users adopted the idea wholesale.
Nonny above with this comment:
"Same. Honestly, I think 4chan and KF bastardized an odd form of expression used by people online because they realized that they could hurt multiple groups by doing it for laughs, and it lingers. Now, anyone that did it innocently is tied to 4chan and transphobia."
You are correct that 4chan and KF were interested in hurting multiple groups, including anyone they saw as furry/autistic/queer, but the kin astroturfing campaign used a lot of its rhetoric specifically to attack and delegitimize trans people. I think a lot of people just forgot that 4chan and KF's transphobic trolling is why and how this extremely niche concept was suddenly exploding on tumblr in 2014-15, and with a pretty different definition than the one the established Otherkin community had been using for over a decade.
There's a really decent lecture online from 2013 (note the date) that goes over the online culture and ideas of Otherkin/Therians. This video has a lot of in-depth documentation, empathy and curiosity, and I highly recommend it to anyone that's curious about the history of kinning/otherkin/therians:
https://youtu.be/ZMEkuOW5pjs?si=Nys4jln6lqea0S8d
If you don't feel like watching the video but want a quick look at how the Therian/Otherkin community in 2013 was discussing and thinking about these type of identities and beliefs, the comment section on this video is a pretty good window into that.
I wasn't in any of these communities but afaik this lecture is considered to be a well researched and accurate description of what the Therian and Otherkin communities were like in 2013, and the experiences of the people that were using these terms. From all my interactions with them and what I've read, (though of course the community is not a monolith, you're going to find some disagreement) on the whole they were and continue to be pretty fucking unhappy with the fact that 'Otherkin", and "Kinning" suddenly exploded to widespread use on tumblr as a result of transphobic astroturfing, and consider the casual use of 'kinning' to be an insulting bastardization of their own beliefs. (Take of that what you will.)
I've learned about this mostly from talking to people in the community, but there's also plenty of documentation about it, here's one example:
https://forums.therian-guide.com/Thread-Therian-Otherkin-Terms
Last updated 2018:
"Otherkin: A person that identifies as being, in part or whole (non-physically), one or more non-human creatures or beings on an integral and personal level. Otherkin cannot choose their kintypes. Otherkin is also an umbrella term for otherkin, therians and fictiokin."
"Coping Linkers: People who use non-human entities as a way to cope with depression, anxiety, and general day-to-day troubles. They are not considered the same as otherkin or therians despite vague similarities, as they have chosen their identities. The name was changed from copingkin to copinglinkers to cement that they are not associated with the otherkin community.
Theriotype: What a therian identifies as being on a spiritual and personal level. A therian may identify as one or more animals as their theriotype. E.g. a therian may have a wolf theriotype, meaning they identify as a wolf.
Kintype: What an otherkin identifies as E.g. Dragonkin means identifying as a dragon, wolfkin as a wolf.
Kin: Shortened form of Otherkin, not a verb. You can’t ‘kin’ something, and ‘kinning’ isn’t a thing. “My kin/theriotype is (x)”, or “I am (x) kin” are correct ways of phrasing it. “I otherkin across the street” makes no sense."
Terms and ideas of course continue to evolve, and there are plenty of people that are either unaware of 4chan's extremely transphobic involvement in popularizing kinning fictional characters on tumblr, or just don't care. Which... honestly, like, fine? Ideas and language evolve, and if you're not using it to maliciously bully people or use it to try and convince other people that trans people are delusional, I guess I don't really think you're doing a great harm to anybody by using the term. It's just been a very, very recent tool of transphobic rhetoric, and the community that it came from less than 10 years ago is also extremely unhappy with people using it causally as a shorthand for having an extreme attachment to fictional characters such as Sans the Skeleton/ thinking you're Sans the Skeleton on the astral plane. (Take your pick.)
Nonny above with this comment:
I mean, are they though? I get how some people might have their perspective of kinning soured by those malicious instances but it's a bit of a stretch to say they're now tied to 4chan and transphobia.
Sorry, but even if you are unaware of the history behind it, saying that you're "kinning a fictional character" is absolutely, definitely tied and strongly associated with 4chan and transphobia, and that's what a lot of people will think of upon seeing it. I'm not equating this to someone putting "I'm kin with Sans the Skeleton" being actively transphobic, just that the recent history behind it absolutely is. It's... context.
Re: Unpopular Opinion...
(Anonymous) - 2023-08-20 07:15 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Unpopular Opinion...
(Anonymous) - 2023-08-20 07:27 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Unpopular Opinion...
(Anonymous) - 2023-08-20 19:25 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Unpopular Opinion...
(Anonymous) 2023-08-10 04:37 pm (UTC)(link)it doesnt help that in online social justice-oriented spaces generally there's an overall notion that anything you say is more valid if you can attach your lived experience as a marginalized person to it. in more toxic instances this can lead to peoples' opinions being dismissed or their negative emotions or experiences being downplayed because they don't confess to having some kind of trauma, disorder, marginalized identity, etc. so of course, in such a situation, young people expressing a normal need for emotional validation or just wanting to be heard might attempt to adopt identities in order to fit in and be taken seriously.
Re: Unpopular Opinion...
(Anonymous) 2023-08-10 05:16 pm (UTC)(link)This is also an excellent point! I've definitely seen this kind of thing happen and I totally agree it leads to adopting marginalized identities that may not necessarily be accurate so as to be involved and heard. I think FR definitely leans into a social justice vibe, not that that's a bad thing, but I do think it can lead to things like you discussed.
Re: Unpopular Opinion...
(Anonymous) 2023-08-10 05:17 pm (UTC)(link)Re: Unpopular Opinion...
(Anonymous) 2023-08-11 03:26 am (UTC)(link)Re: Unpopular Opinion...
(Anonymous) 2023-08-11 03:52 am (UTC)(link)I'd set it to "D:text"
Whenever I type in something like "D: Good morning!"
It'll show up in discord like Dragon: Good morning!
The text I entered is automatically deleted by the bot, so it looks like my dragon said good morning, not me.
Like this: https://i.gyazo.com/c398e3a829775df6c6d2a8b20fdaf27a.png
There's another bot called Tupperbox that does the same thing, and folks usually use it for RP- like in my example.
Re: Unpopular Opinion...
(Anonymous) 2023-08-11 04:17 am (UTC)(link)Re: Unpopular Opinion...
(Anonymous) 2023-08-11 04:37 am (UTC)(link)You also can't block the pluralkit proxies, so one person with a handful of these can make a server unusable. Most of the time it's obnoxious but not malicious, basically just watching someone rp in a space not meant for rp. Occasionally you see people using it as a tool for harassment, since they know they can get around being blocked this way.
Re: Unpopular Opinion...
(Anonymous) - 2023-08-11 14:34 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Unpopular Opinion...
(Anonymous) - 2023-08-11 17:52 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Unpopular Opinion...
(Anonymous) - 2023-08-20 23:53 (UTC) - ExpandRe: Unpopular Opinion...
(Anonymous) 2023-08-10 08:14 pm (UTC)(link)Re: Unpopular Opinion...
(Anonymous) 2023-08-10 08:27 pm (UTC)(link)it hurts too seeing how many people in these groups are in their late twenties/early thirties still engaging in these types of behaviors.