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nayrt
This is an interesting topic.
and like not gonna like? To me it depends on the context. There's a time and place for everything. Kink is awesome! Love it! But there's just some places where it doesn't belong and should stay that way. (generally speaking, anyway..there's some weird situations out there...)
That being said, if a person has a 'kink' dragon but it's on the super down low and isn't overtly stated anywhere on FR that its a kink dragon, I personally don't see the issue. If I come across a persons lair and just think I'm looking at a pretty carousel dragon and have no reason to think otherwise? Good to go. FR has a lot of minors enjoying the game, don't be weird.
This is an interesting topic.
and like not gonna like? To me it depends on the context. There's a time and place for everything. Kink is awesome! Love it! But there's just some places where it doesn't belong and should stay that way. (generally speaking, anyway..there's some weird situations out there...)
That being said, if a person has a 'kink' dragon but it's on the super down low and isn't overtly stated anywhere on FR that its a kink dragon, I personally don't see the issue. If I come across a persons lair and just think I'm looking at a pretty carousel dragon and have no reason to think otherwise? Good to go. FR has a lot of minors enjoying the game, don't be weird.
the thing is, someone DID get doxxed in relation to this mess, on this very page. thankfully the mods wiped it pretty quick, but it was very much a thing that happened so people are more than rightfully wary about any association with users who would do such a thing
Where are all the cute Tundras for sale!! I've seen a few nice ones trawling the AH but they're usually very Themed in a way that doesn't fit my general lair very well.
I know Tundras are basically fodder children from fodder parents bc they're one of the 4 plentifuls but surely I can't be the only one out here??
Do I have to go trawl Tundra hatcheries? Do those exist?
I know Tundras are basically fodder children from fodder parents bc they're one of the 4 plentifuls but surely I can't be the only one out here??
Do I have to go trawl Tundra hatcheries? Do those exist?
You can always just pick out a nice dragon with the genes and color combo you want and then give it a tundra breed change scroll
TLDR: Yes this is over 1,300 words long. If you don't want to read it, you don't have to.
I’m not going to sit here and call myself a saint, because I'm certainly not, and I don't expect anyone to respond to this and be on my side. However, Booleano pretending she’s the victim in all of this when I was constantly receiving messages of her being fake and generally constantly shit-talking me pre friendship-breakup from Vinid is honestly pretty funny. None of these people should be trusted with private conversations, particularly Sucrose, who was perfectly happy to betray everyone’s trust and confidentiality and throw Vinid under the bus and let her be our scapegoat, knowing perfectly well she herself was the leaker.
Coming back to this because A.) I believe that there’s still confusion on why everything happened the way it did and B.) to tell you all to stop harassing people who aren’t even associated with me anymore.
I apologize to the whole server for my representative behavior of them and whilst I don’t care about being complained about, they do, and you guys need to move the fuck on with your lives and leave them alone since they have nothing to do with me and my own actions. I also apologize to Ado since he also had nothing to do with any of this. I don’t have a reason as to why I did what I did, I was lashing out and it was something hurtful that I could do to make myself look worse and past redeemability, since I didn't want to have to write an apology. Obviously I'm here now so it didn't even do what I intended. Anyways, it was a purposeful mistake and I never should have released private information relating to him.
The only people that should be involved in this conflict, really, are me (cross), Booleano, Vinid, and Sucrose. That’s it.
So here’s my side of the story. It didn’t just start with the pinglist stuff.
I (re)joined the Flight Rising community in the summer of 2022. Me and Booleano ended up being friends after a period in which they had me blocked (she later admitted that it was jealousy which lead to this initial blocking), as well as me and Vinid. Right off the bat, things were shaky with my friendship with Booleano. We all became friends through her streaming of egg-hatching in G1 Hell.
Here are the problems I’m going to lay out with our relationship:
1. Guilt-tripped me into giving her hundreds of thousands of gems, despite knowing that I’m bipolar and frequently vented frustration with my disorder and giving money to ungrateful people.
2. Gaslight me into thinking that I was the one in the wrong for not giving her my low-digits for a low price after I fairly acquired them.
3. Shit-talked me behind my back to mutual friend Vinid, to the point of making Vinid uncomfortable. Vinid often tried to get Booleano to stop venting to her about a mutual friend, which Booleano always ignored. Booleano and I were still friends who voice-chatted every day at this point.
Details here are hazy since I deleted my old discord. I don’t have screenshots but since this is all the truth I don't really care. Vinid can probably find my Tumblr if she wants to contact me after this post goes up.
It started when I purchased a 4-digit imperial named Giovanni from Titor for 350kg. It was originally supposed to be that I would sell them to Booleano for the same amount, but after a while I grew attached, and Booleano said it was fine. Until I started waffling on my decision as I became bored. This is common with basically everything I have ever owned on account of my disorder. Bool blew up at me after a while, saying that I was waving Gio in her face.
I apologized to her, and offered her a deal. I would trade Giovanni for a Gilded Crown, worth around 180kg at the time, and around 100kg now. Also- it was only ever worth that much at the time because of her worth-manipulating it. Keep in mind she constantly complained about Titor and Alyxsandre worth manipulating G1 oldies but did this. I lost 170kg to 250kg in worth because of this, which I was fine with. Booleano barely thanked me (which Vinid thought was weird as well after showing her screenshots, so no, I'm not exaggerating.
And then it happened again with Gatsby.
I really wanted this other 4-digit imperial because of its ID, 1922, and its relation to my favorite book, so I obtained it from its previous owner. Here’s the problem- Booleano wanted Gatsby as well. Long story short, she harassed me to the point of wearing me down over it, and I ended up selling it to her for 250kg, taking a 50kg loss on this one. She was angry at me for not selling it to her for 200kg as well, which would’ve been a 100kg loss.
There's something I can't remember about a Light Sprite here too which was well-documented but basically I gifted Vinid one, and took it back since Bool was going to gift Vinid the Light Sprite as part of the Gatsby deal (making 200kg + 100kg = 300kg), and Bool didn't go through with her end of the deal. Take this with a grain of salt though- again I barely remember this, don't have screenshots, and Bool will probably use this as a reason to discredit my whole post even though I'm admitting that I could be wrong in some aspects.
By this point, Vinid had started sharing screenshots of Booleano shit-talking me in her dms with me. We were both frustrated with her behavior towards me. This isn’t me misinterpreting anything. She was flat out milking me for money whilst also constantly saying nasty things about me behind my back. The final straw was a 5-digit imp which I had purchased for 50kg, sold to Booleano for 50kg (because I was trying to be nice), and which she then tried flipping for around 120kg. I was done, and sent her a message saying, in short, that I no longer wished to be friends before blocking her.
I'm not even going to get into how Booleano accused me behind my back of trying to bribe my way into the ODCA discord to Vinid, even though the only reason I gifted that specific user 100kg was because I felt bad about not selling them my 3-digit months earlier. But that also happened.
Now here’s where everything else comes into play. In my private discord, someone was leaking information about us shit-talking Bool.
This person was the user Sucrose, as confirmed by Vinid through screenshots that Bool forwarded to her. Not Vinid herself, as initially assumed. I will apologize to her for our assumptions, and I presume everyone else from that Discord feels the same way. I was also mad at her for ghosting me and prioritizing Booleano over me even though Bool prepped a callout post for me based on my blocking her for flipping, and not anything actually worth a callout. I kicked her out, and this started the pinglist shit.
I still have no idea who was doing it (No, it wasn’t me, and nobody has ever owned up to it. Feel free to make assumptions in the comments).
Here’s my problem with everything. Me and Vinid remained on decent terms even after all this, voice-chatting every once in a while to update each other on the pinglist stuff cordially. She told me she wanted no drama. She never mentioned to anyone who inquired who she believed was a suspect in doing it.
I have no idea if Vinid and Booleano are still friends after all this, but I was told by Vinid that she, in her own words, never wanted Bool to post that initial saltblog post in the first place, and that Bool went behind her back to do so. So I certainly hope Vinid isn’t, but maybe I was lied to.
I'm gonna end it here but I'm not going to be responding to or reading comments unless someone informs me that Booleano has responded with her own statement and it's another smear on me, even though I've already ruined my own reputation. I'm done with this conflict.
I’m not going to sit here and call myself a saint, because I'm certainly not, and I don't expect anyone to respond to this and be on my side. However, Booleano pretending she’s the victim in all of this when I was constantly receiving messages of her being fake and generally constantly shit-talking me pre friendship-breakup from Vinid is honestly pretty funny. None of these people should be trusted with private conversations, particularly Sucrose, who was perfectly happy to betray everyone’s trust and confidentiality and throw Vinid under the bus and let her be our scapegoat, knowing perfectly well she herself was the leaker.
Coming back to this because A.) I believe that there’s still confusion on why everything happened the way it did and B.) to tell you all to stop harassing people who aren’t even associated with me anymore.
I apologize to the whole server for my representative behavior of them and whilst I don’t care about being complained about, they do, and you guys need to move the fuck on with your lives and leave them alone since they have nothing to do with me and my own actions. I also apologize to Ado since he also had nothing to do with any of this. I don’t have a reason as to why I did what I did, I was lashing out and it was something hurtful that I could do to make myself look worse and past redeemability, since I didn't want to have to write an apology. Obviously I'm here now so it didn't even do what I intended. Anyways, it was a purposeful mistake and I never should have released private information relating to him.
The only people that should be involved in this conflict, really, are me (cross), Booleano, Vinid, and Sucrose. That’s it.
So here’s my side of the story. It didn’t just start with the pinglist stuff.
I (re)joined the Flight Rising community in the summer of 2022. Me and Booleano ended up being friends after a period in which they had me blocked (she later admitted that it was jealousy which lead to this initial blocking), as well as me and Vinid. Right off the bat, things were shaky with my friendship with Booleano. We all became friends through her streaming of egg-hatching in G1 Hell.
Here are the problems I’m going to lay out with our relationship:
1. Guilt-tripped me into giving her hundreds of thousands of gems, despite knowing that I’m bipolar and frequently vented frustration with my disorder and giving money to ungrateful people.
2. Gaslight me into thinking that I was the one in the wrong for not giving her my low-digits for a low price after I fairly acquired them.
3. Shit-talked me behind my back to mutual friend Vinid, to the point of making Vinid uncomfortable. Vinid often tried to get Booleano to stop venting to her about a mutual friend, which Booleano always ignored. Booleano and I were still friends who voice-chatted every day at this point.
Details here are hazy since I deleted my old discord. I don’t have screenshots but since this is all the truth I don't really care. Vinid can probably find my Tumblr if she wants to contact me after this post goes up.
It started when I purchased a 4-digit imperial named Giovanni from Titor for 350kg. It was originally supposed to be that I would sell them to Booleano for the same amount, but after a while I grew attached, and Booleano said it was fine. Until I started waffling on my decision as I became bored. This is common with basically everything I have ever owned on account of my disorder. Bool blew up at me after a while, saying that I was waving Gio in her face.
I apologized to her, and offered her a deal. I would trade Giovanni for a Gilded Crown, worth around 180kg at the time, and around 100kg now. Also- it was only ever worth that much at the time because of her worth-manipulating it. Keep in mind she constantly complained about Titor and Alyxsandre worth manipulating G1 oldies but did this. I lost 170kg to 250kg in worth because of this, which I was fine with. Booleano barely thanked me (which Vinid thought was weird as well after showing her screenshots, so no, I'm not exaggerating.
And then it happened again with Gatsby.
I really wanted this other 4-digit imperial because of its ID, 1922, and its relation to my favorite book, so I obtained it from its previous owner. Here’s the problem- Booleano wanted Gatsby as well. Long story short, she harassed me to the point of wearing me down over it, and I ended up selling it to her for 250kg, taking a 50kg loss on this one. She was angry at me for not selling it to her for 200kg as well, which would’ve been a 100kg loss.
There's something I can't remember about a Light Sprite here too which was well-documented but basically I gifted Vinid one, and took it back since Bool was going to gift Vinid the Light Sprite as part of the Gatsby deal (making 200kg + 100kg = 300kg), and Bool didn't go through with her end of the deal. Take this with a grain of salt though- again I barely remember this, don't have screenshots, and Bool will probably use this as a reason to discredit my whole post even though I'm admitting that I could be wrong in some aspects.
By this point, Vinid had started sharing screenshots of Booleano shit-talking me in her dms with me. We were both frustrated with her behavior towards me. This isn’t me misinterpreting anything. She was flat out milking me for money whilst also constantly saying nasty things about me behind my back. The final straw was a 5-digit imp which I had purchased for 50kg, sold to Booleano for 50kg (because I was trying to be nice), and which she then tried flipping for around 120kg. I was done, and sent her a message saying, in short, that I no longer wished to be friends before blocking her.
I'm not even going to get into how Booleano accused me behind my back of trying to bribe my way into the ODCA discord to Vinid, even though the only reason I gifted that specific user 100kg was because I felt bad about not selling them my 3-digit months earlier. But that also happened.
Now here’s where everything else comes into play. In my private discord, someone was leaking information about us shit-talking Bool.
This person was the user Sucrose, as confirmed by Vinid through screenshots that Bool forwarded to her. Not Vinid herself, as initially assumed. I will apologize to her for our assumptions, and I presume everyone else from that Discord feels the same way. I was also mad at her for ghosting me and prioritizing Booleano over me even though Bool prepped a callout post for me based on my blocking her for flipping, and not anything actually worth a callout. I kicked her out, and this started the pinglist shit.
I still have no idea who was doing it (No, it wasn’t me, and nobody has ever owned up to it. Feel free to make assumptions in the comments).
Here’s my problem with everything. Me and Vinid remained on decent terms even after all this, voice-chatting every once in a while to update each other on the pinglist stuff cordially. She told me she wanted no drama. She never mentioned to anyone who inquired who she believed was a suspect in doing it.
I have no idea if Vinid and Booleano are still friends after all this, but I was told by Vinid that she, in her own words, never wanted Bool to post that initial saltblog post in the first place, and that Bool went behind her back to do so. So I certainly hope Vinid isn’t, but maybe I was lied to.
I'm gonna end it here but I'm not going to be responding to or reading comments unless someone informs me that Booleano has responded with her own statement and it's another smear on me, even though I've already ruined my own reputation. I'm done with this conflict.
being you people sounds exhausting
https://www1.flightrising.com/forums/art/3239124/1#post_54185752
I can see that Shamirr's upset about the fact that they didn't get the wip of their sheet sent to them before the artist finalized the commission, but tbh they come across as kind of weirdly aggressive here... It wasn't a scam, you just didn't get a product that matched exactly what your were imagining in your brain. I don't think that really merits Shamirr plastering multiple buyer beware post on both of this person's shop threads and on TH. Also wtf about the artist being "shady" for just making a clean thread...
I can see that Shamirr's upset about the fact that they didn't get the wip of their sheet sent to them before the artist finalized the commission, but tbh they come across as kind of weirdly aggressive here... It wasn't a scam, you just didn't get a product that matched exactly what your were imagining in your brain. I don't think that really merits Shamirr plastering multiple buyer beware post on both of this person's shop threads and on TH. Also wtf about the artist being "shady" for just making a clean thread...
i think everyone involved in this situation needs to seek some form of individual therapy and maybe play something other than petsites for a while instead of literally all of this. there must be a better way to improve your lives.
Not gonna screen this, but seriously, this dead horse has turned into a gooey paste at this point.
Enough's enough.
Enough's enough.
gravna's explanations for why they took liberty with some details make total sense to me, and makes me wonder what shamirr's commission order message looked like exactly. i'm also not a fan of shamirr's "see? the messages aren't in my inbox!" as "proof" because those can easily be deleted. and expecting a full refund despite the work gravna did is... stretching it, imo.
however, i think it's hard to deny that it was disingenuous to make a new thread less than 30 minutes after shamirr posted that review, rather than gravna's "the replies were overwhelming" excuse. it's obvious it was done to hide the review, but at the same time... i'm not really sure the best way to handle that otherwise, especially when gravna already tried reaching out and make amends on the commission.
however, i think it's hard to deny that it was disingenuous to make a new thread less than 30 minutes after shamirr posted that review, rather than gravna's "the replies were overwhelming" excuse. it's obvious it was done to hide the review, but at the same time... i'm not really sure the best way to handle that otherwise, especially when gravna already tried reaching out and make amends on the commission.
a thread on th was made about this including the messages (i believe this post is readable to those without an account)
https://toyhou.se/~forums/5867.service-reviews/402800.gravnagryravnaravn-psa-flightrising
https://toyhou.se/~forums/5867.service-reviews/402800.gravnagryravnaravn-psa-flightrising
looks like gravna made reasonable offers to edit things but shamirr was just too mad to really consider anything other than a full refund. in the PMs shamirr more or less admits that they didnt provide a good explanation/refs for what they specifically wanted. i think gravna fucked up by not explicitly getting a sketch response from shamirr, but if i sent 2 pms to someone and they didnt respond for a week i might have done that as well.
making an artists beware post about this is really dramatic and unnecessary imo
making an artists beware post about this is really dramatic and unnecessary imo
ugh what a nightmare for gravna. this is why I won't bother selling art.
+1
Even as someone who's been on the other end of this and tends to skew toward the buyer in situations like these because of that bias, Gravna seems to have done what they can to try and remedy it while Shamirr seems unwilling to try and work with them.
Kinda amusing how a "beware this artist!" post kinda turns into a "beware this art buyer" instead.
Even as someone who's been on the other end of this and tends to skew toward the buyer in situations like these because of that bias, Gravna seems to have done what they can to try and remedy it while Shamirr seems unwilling to try and work with them.
Kinda amusing how a "beware this artist!" post kinda turns into a "beware this art buyer" instead.
But energy isn't tied at all to premium currency. The starter pack has some water in it, sure, but the vast majority of your energy is going to come from on-site activities like Campaign (the equivalent of the coli), Farming, Fishing, and Cooking (turning raw food into processed food). It's not at all like a mobile game.
I'm also not sure where you're seeing limited time exclusive cash-only items either. Outside of kickstarter items (which: spoiler -- FR set the model for and LW only copied FR), there doesn't seem to be anything limited on LW, and anything for cash can be purchased through earning the premium currency on site.
I'm also not sure where you're seeing limited time exclusive cash-only items either. Outside of kickstarter items (which: spoiler -- FR set the model for and LW only copied FR), there doesn't seem to be anything limited on LW, and anything for cash can be purchased through earning the premium currency on site.
ok wait i saw an SMR post in which commenters claimed gravna was tracing?? what's up with that, anyone got proof?
Due to various incidents and people emailing me, I'm temporarily banning any further discussion on the drama involving Vinid, Souls, Booleano, Sucrose and Cross.
Any further comments will be frozen and screened to prevent any further escalation.
(Also, if this situation becomes worse, I will have to resort to enabling screening comments by default, as well as enabling captchas.)
Any further comments will be frozen and screened to prevent any further escalation.
(Also, if this situation becomes worse, I will have to resort to enabling screening comments by default, as well as enabling captchas.)
Edited 2023-05-18 03:37 (UTC)
tbh kinda frustrating that the thread just has one person responding and specifically in support of shamirr, in light of this
or is it standard for this kind of thing to not go super commented on, over at toyhouse?
or is it standard for this kind of thing to not go super commented on, over at toyhouse?
The claim is that they traced poses from an account that literally offers stock images to use as a reference.
Tbh, refs like that shouldn't be traced imho. Like, if you want to trace a model, use one of those free posing programs, don't just trace over some rando on the internet.
Yeah people are trying to complain that the artist was referencing a pose from theposearchives:
https://www.deviantart.com/theposearchives
From theposearchives DA account:
"We create awesome pose reference for artists! Enjoy and let's create some art!"
"Rules:
-You can use our stock as reference:
Credit is appreciated, but not necessary
-For both private and commercial use"
These photos are posted under creative commons 3.0. They require attribution for photomanip but not for drawings.
I think people like shamirr also really misunderstand 'tracing' when it comes to photoref. There are no lines to trace here- when you draw on top of a photograph you have to make plenty of decisions about how to interpret the 3D forms of the photo in your sketch. The photo doesn't have lines to 'trace' in the way that another person's line art does. If the photo you're referencing is not posted under creative commons and the sketch is very similar to the original then you might get in trouble with copyright law- but that would be the case regardless of whether you started drawing directly on top of the photo you were referencing or not.
https://www.deviantart.com/theposearchives
From theposearchives DA account:
"We create awesome pose reference for artists! Enjoy and let's create some art!"
"Rules:
-You can use our stock as reference:
Credit is appreciated, but not necessary
-For both private and commercial use"
These photos are posted under creative commons 3.0. They require attribution for photomanip but not for drawings.
I think people like shamirr also really misunderstand 'tracing' when it comes to photoref. There are no lines to trace here- when you draw on top of a photograph you have to make plenty of decisions about how to interpret the 3D forms of the photo in your sketch. The photo doesn't have lines to 'trace' in the way that another person's line art does. If the photo you're referencing is not posted under creative commons and the sketch is very similar to the original then you might get in trouble with copyright law- but that would be the case regardless of whether you started drawing directly on top of the photo you were referencing or not.
It's tricky. I sympathize with Shamirr, because I'd hate to lose 6kg on a piece that's not what I wanted. On the other hand, I feel bad for gravna, because Shamirr was unnecessarily rude, and they /are/ offering to fix the reference sheet. This could've been easily avoided with more communication on both ends.
Also, that Toyhou.se username.."gravnaPSA"? c'mon man, be for real.
Also, that Toyhou.se username.."gravnaPSA"? c'mon man, be for real.
-1
The randos in the stock photos have posted them online for this exact purpose. Also 3D model posing programs cost money and they kind of suck because they don't demonstrate realistic balance and weight very well. Also people have been drawing and painting over photo type references for hundreds of years:
https://hyperallergic.com/315706/evidence-mounts-that-rembrandt-used-optics-to-paint-self-portraits/
If the photo isn't under creative commons then a tracing of it might be a problem, but that's not an issue here.
The randos in the stock photos have posted them online for this exact purpose. Also 3D model posing programs cost money and they kind of suck because they don't demonstrate realistic balance and weight very well. Also people have been drawing and painting over photo type references for hundreds of years:
https://hyperallergic.com/315706/evidence-mounts-that-rembrandt-used-optics-to-paint-self-portraits/
If the photo isn't under creative commons then a tracing of it might be a problem, but that's not an issue here.
lol I didn't see that Shamirr had made a whole account called "gravnaPSA" for calling out gravna on TH... geez. Did they sign up for the account on TH just to post this callout because it wasn't getting responses on FR? :/
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