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I hate seeing that on dragons I want to buy, how am I supposed to know what you want for your dragon?? Like, Gen1s with similar colors are priced from 25 to 300 g in AH, so what should I choose, the middle, the higher end, the lowest, pay more than on AH??
(frozen comment) Re: Censoring genes/eye types on Discord
(Anonymous) 2023-04-18 05:29 pm (UTC)(link)AYRT Oh wow, thank you for your thoughts!
Re: 2A I did not mean to imply that people who are triggered are in the same category as people who just find an image icky. I meant more like, say someone doesn't like to see pictures of XYZ gross thing because they think it's gross, but they aren't triggered by it nor do they have any other particular mental health issues regarding it. I do not think pictures should be spoiled for that person if it puts a burden on people with memory issues, and I do think at least a few of the people requesting spoilering fall into that category because they are over-pathologizing their feelings of disgust/discomfort.
Your point about boundaries vs. experiences is really thoughtful and I've never heard it put that way before. I feel like people often forget that people are, generally speaking, allowed to not have to deal with boundaries. For example, if someone says "I have X boundary" and someone else says "that isn't the kind of boundary I want in a friendship" they are then free to not be friends with that person and that is actually okay, because it is the purpose of boundaries, and it doesn't automatically mean they're a bad person because they don't want to have to deal with the boundary.
However, because of the way people usually talk about boundaries (often in the context of dealing with their mental health or navigating a problematic relationship), there is an assumption that boundaries are always a good thing that must be respected AND that if you have a problem with them, YOU are the problem. I think that carries over into this discussion, and like you said, it makes it difficult to be the person who can't or doesn't want to deal with a boundary, and if the reason is because of something you can't change, like your own memory issues, it can lead to internalizing the feeling that you're a bad person or a problem somehow.
Re: 2A I did not mean to imply that people who are triggered are in the same category as people who just find an image icky. I meant more like, say someone doesn't like to see pictures of XYZ gross thing because they think it's gross, but they aren't triggered by it nor do they have any other particular mental health issues regarding it. I do not think pictures should be spoiled for that person if it puts a burden on people with memory issues, and I do think at least a few of the people requesting spoilering fall into that category because they are over-pathologizing their feelings of disgust/discomfort.
Your point about boundaries vs. experiences is really thoughtful and I've never heard it put that way before. I feel like people often forget that people are, generally speaking, allowed to not have to deal with boundaries. For example, if someone says "I have X boundary" and someone else says "that isn't the kind of boundary I want in a friendship" they are then free to not be friends with that person and that is actually okay, because it is the purpose of boundaries, and it doesn't automatically mean they're a bad person because they don't want to have to deal with the boundary.
However, because of the way people usually talk about boundaries (often in the context of dealing with their mental health or navigating a problematic relationship), there is an assumption that boundaries are always a good thing that must be respected AND that if you have a problem with them, YOU are the problem. I think that carries over into this discussion, and like you said, it makes it difficult to be the person who can't or doesn't want to deal with a boundary, and if the reason is because of something you can't change, like your own memory issues, it can lead to internalizing the feeling that you're a bad person or a problem somehow.
I look at the prices of what I've paid before for similar colors. Like, if I've paid 300g for a specific color range, I'll offer the same for a similar dragon as a starting point.
As one of the people who brought up having two channels as a solution (that is in fact currently working well for Nature Flight discord), I want to shed some additional light on why I think that second channel has not fallen into the trap you describe:
(1) The list of server-wide triggers is fairly brief and fairly specific to just certain genes and eye types.
(2) The culture around the two channels (and their respective descriptions) makes it very clear that the channel with spoiler requirements should be treated as the default, with the other channel exclusively meant for dragons that could not be posted at all otherwise.
I think (1) is probably the harder, more subjective standard to maintain, and a lot of it comes down to what kind of server culture you're looking to cultivate. An independent FR-themed server will likely have more of an atmosphere of members getting to know each other as people and perhaps even as true friends; in such a context, talking about lots of non-FR topics is expected, and a wider scope for trigger lists is appropriate. For "official" flight discords, though, far fewer "off-topic" (read: non-FR) channels are going to be a thing, making it way more feasible to maintain a trigger list that is comparatively brief and unambiguous.
…Also, it sounds to me like, if one is going to maintain a server where a broader scope of topics (and potential triggers) is discussed, it would be genuinely helpful to go all-in in detail there! That is: (using your example) outright listing the trigger as "moving images of real life butterflies (still images and illustrations are completely fine)."
The list is already something people are expected to not be able to memorize, after all; the extra level of detail can only help.
(1) The list of server-wide triggers is fairly brief and fairly specific to just certain genes and eye types.
(2) The culture around the two channels (and their respective descriptions) makes it very clear that the channel with spoiler requirements should be treated as the default, with the other channel exclusively meant for dragons that could not be posted at all otherwise.
I think (1) is probably the harder, more subjective standard to maintain, and a lot of it comes down to what kind of server culture you're looking to cultivate. An independent FR-themed server will likely have more of an atmosphere of members getting to know each other as people and perhaps even as true friends; in such a context, talking about lots of non-FR topics is expected, and a wider scope for trigger lists is appropriate. For "official" flight discords, though, far fewer "off-topic" (read: non-FR) channels are going to be a thing, making it way more feasible to maintain a trigger list that is comparatively brief and unambiguous.
…Also, it sounds to me like, if one is going to maintain a server where a broader scope of topics (and potential triggers) is discussed, it would be genuinely helpful to go all-in in detail there! That is: (using your example) outright listing the trigger as "moving images of real life butterflies (still images and illustrations are completely fine)."
The list is already something people are expected to not be able to memorize, after all; the extra level of detail can only help.
Honestly, pick a price you would feel good paying as a starting point and say you're willing to discuss if the seller isn't willing to take that.
Given your example, I'd probably toss 100 or 150 g as a starting offer unless it's fodder for a breeding project
Given your example, I'd probably toss 100 or 150 g as a starting offer unless it's fodder for a breeding project
(frozen comment) Re: Censoring genes/eye types on Discord
(Anonymous) 2023-04-18 07:00 pm (UTC)(link)". I do not think pictures should be spoiled for that person if it puts a burden on people with memory issues, and I do think at least a few of the people requesting spoilering fall into that category because they are over-pathologizing their feelings of disgust/discomfort."
Exactly, neurotypical or well abled people coming from very first world environments trying very hard to turn their normal experiences into serious health conditions or concerns where none exist, just to use as rhetoric to gain more control over what a community does. That's what so much of this nonsense on both sides of the aisle is all about.
As someone who is neurodivergent and has a lot of sensory triggers, and who can get migraines from overly busy visual material (not from FR art but occasionally skins and accents), it feels tone deaf to see people casually making mountains out of molehills concerning why they need to be catered to and centered with these 'triggers' and 'memory issues' at the expense of people with actual health problems and trauma who need certain accommodations in internet spaces. It is so obviously exaggerated. I know entitlement and "privilege flight" are dirty words around here, but I don't know how else to characterize at least some of the behavior when it comes to these kinds of arguments.
Exactly, neurotypical or well abled people coming from very first world environments trying very hard to turn their normal experiences into serious health conditions or concerns where none exist, just to use as rhetoric to gain more control over what a community does. That's what so much of this nonsense on both sides of the aisle is all about.
As someone who is neurodivergent and has a lot of sensory triggers, and who can get migraines from overly busy visual material (not from FR art but occasionally skins and accents), it feels tone deaf to see people casually making mountains out of molehills concerning why they need to be catered to and centered with these 'triggers' and 'memory issues' at the expense of people with actual health problems and trauma who need certain accommodations in internet spaces. It is so obviously exaggerated. I know entitlement and "privilege flight" are dirty words around here, but I don't know how else to characterize at least some of the behavior when it comes to these kinds of arguments.
imo giant trigger lists are dumb. so are required tone tags
nayrt
alternately, water mods made a mistake and when it was brought to their attention, they fixed it because they too realized it was far too high
a thought™
alternately, water mods made a mistake and when it was brought to their attention, they fixed it because they too realized it was far too high
a thought™
Definitely a good call on the quick fix - but I forgive a badge labeling oops easily when the gem ratio is decent and attendants are offering them almost 100% of the time.
(Do I feel bad about judging flights that don't offer gems properly for fest payouts? A little. But with all the treasure-only public buy pushes nowadays it feels like gems make fest kinda special yknow.)
(Do I feel bad about judging flights that don't offer gems properly for fest payouts? A little. But with all the treasure-only public buy pushes nowadays it feels like gems make fest kinda special yknow.)
I'm autistic and over 35, so I don't live on tiktok.
Tone tags are an entirely separate list of jargon onto themselves, I don't know what 90% of them mean, so I refuse to use them- I simply dictate what I mean when I say it.
Like "Is this real? Genuinely curious!"
Tone tags are an entirely separate list of jargon onto themselves, I don't know what 90% of them mean, so I refuse to use them- I simply dictate what I mean when I say it.
Like "Is this real? Genuinely curious!"
right, to me it seems like defeating the "clarity of speech" purpose behind tone tags if understanding them requires memorizing a list of abbreviations. my absolute least favorite one is "/pos" to mean "positive." like, you're telling me you don't look at "pos" and read it as "piece of s___?"
re: multiaccounting shtifest on SMR, the most insufferable part of the whole conversation was the people trying to justify why THEIR multiaccounting was totally cooler & better & more justified than those OTHER multiaccounters. like, why do you think you are special? this isn't some "unjust laws deserve to be broken" situation, it's literally just a rule saying one account per human person.
(frozen comment) Re: Censoring genes/eye types on Discord
(Anonymous) 2023-04-19 05:49 am (UTC)(link)AYRT
re: 2a my post went over the character limit, and i had to delete a lot of stuff! i did originally mean to address this but i think it all got lost in the saving-space reshuffle:
i do agree that some people probably don't experience significant harm from things they list as triggers, not even as a cumulative effect. i also agree that treating these with the same structural weight as triggers can cause further social issues and burden those who struggle to respect triggers, either because of poor memory or for any other reason.
i also believe these people over-pathologizing their discomfort are, in at least SOME cases, harming themselves. i gave myself a debilitating phobia by doing this.
i felt uncomfortable during a couple of surprise encounters with a large house spider. shortly afterwards, seeing spiders online reminded me of those feelings, and created an urge to check my surroundings for that spider. so i started to avoid looking at those pictures, and avoided spaces where i would expect to see them. soon, i had an immediate response of avoidance when i saw a spider.
my feelings when seeing real spiders became more severe. i began to have distressing dreams about them. seeing pictures no longer brought up a vague sense of discomfort, but memories of those dreams and a fear that they would really happen.
at some point, i can't pinpoint when, the mild distress i originally had when seeing spider pictures online became full arachnaphobia.
in my career at the time, looking at, discussing, and interacting with real spiders was a regular part of my life. until this happened i was perfectly happy with that. eventually, the phobia got so bad i had to quit.
i'm working on my arachnaphobia with a therapist, and understanding how i came to develop the fear is an important part of recovering from it.
and NO, i don't think this exact path will be taken by everyone who pathologises their own feelings of disgust or discomfort at a subject. it's probably pretty unusual. i had underlying mental illness at the time that caused me to go from mild distress -> avoidance -> greater distress -> more avoidance -> phobia.
most people won't land on phobia, but it's possible that they are worsening their own distress at seeing the unpleasant subject by avoiding that subject, and asking others to facilitate this avoidance. of course, it's also possible that their current avoidance is the only thing KEEPING them from a phobia. it's impossible to know, and for that reason i'm hesitant to judge anyone for which boundaries they choose to develop or enforce, or how they choose to enforce those boundaries.
in fact, on that note:
"I feel like people often forget that people are, generally speaking, allowed to not have to deal with boundaries."
i absolutely agree. unfortunately, i also believe that in general, the only respectful (as in of someone as an individual, rather than of any particular boundary) way to choose not to deal with a particular boundary is to not interact with the person who has that boundary at all, or at least to avoid them in situations where that boundary is relevant.
and in a public space like a discord server, that can be difficult. blocking them doesn't stop them seeing your messages, only you seeing theirs. i am in a discord where i have a mutual block with someone because i asked them to block me, and they agreed that was for the best. i wish that was more normal, because mutual blocks are an excellent way of both enforcing your own boundaries AND respecting other's. mutual blocks are a great tool for respecting boundaries by not having to remember or deal with the specifics of those boundaries.
i think the most mature and constructive approach to not being able to (or wanting to) deal with someone's given boundaries is to explicitly tell them so. most people will, quite reasonably, tell you that's not okay and if you are't going to respect their boundaries then don't interact with them. in digital spaces, they likely will (and arguably should) then block you.
what boundaries someone develops or enforces is their business, and i make it a point to respect all stated boundaries as well as i'm able no matter what that given boundary is or how "silly" i personally find it. i'm sure some of my own boundaries look pretty "silly" to others, but i know why they're in place.
i'm firm about enforcing my own boundaries, and have a low tolerance of violations of them - but, blatant trolls excepted, i do NOT consider any particular boundary violation a moral failing on the part of the violator. the more people you know, the more boundaries there are to remember. especially in queer-friendly and neurodivergent spaces. even someone with a functional memory is going to forget a few boundaries now and then. also, in my case, i can't remember whether i've expressed a boundary to someone before. some of them don't come up very often, and are unusual.
i've got to learn to write shorter posts. to summarise:
if you don't want to (or can't) respect someone's boundary (or trigger, which is a boundary), that doesn't inherently make you a bad person. they're also not a bad person for expressing this boundary. you can just agree to not interact with each other. this should become more normal.
if a lot of people consider someone's boundary unreasonable, that individual may find fewer and fewer people are willing to interact with them because of that boundary, and may then re-examine the nature of the boundary and how they enforce it.
re-examining your own boundaries, why they're in place, and how you enforce them should also become more normal. it doesn't mean you have to change anything, or think about it constantly, but if you realise your boundaries are causing issues between yourself and others, it's a good idea to at least ask why.
re: 2a my post went over the character limit, and i had to delete a lot of stuff! i did originally mean to address this but i think it all got lost in the saving-space reshuffle:
i do agree that some people probably don't experience significant harm from things they list as triggers, not even as a cumulative effect. i also agree that treating these with the same structural weight as triggers can cause further social issues and burden those who struggle to respect triggers, either because of poor memory or for any other reason.
i also believe these people over-pathologizing their discomfort are, in at least SOME cases, harming themselves. i gave myself a debilitating phobia by doing this.
i felt uncomfortable during a couple of surprise encounters with a large house spider. shortly afterwards, seeing spiders online reminded me of those feelings, and created an urge to check my surroundings for that spider. so i started to avoid looking at those pictures, and avoided spaces where i would expect to see them. soon, i had an immediate response of avoidance when i saw a spider.
my feelings when seeing real spiders became more severe. i began to have distressing dreams about them. seeing pictures no longer brought up a vague sense of discomfort, but memories of those dreams and a fear that they would really happen.
at some point, i can't pinpoint when, the mild distress i originally had when seeing spider pictures online became full arachnaphobia.
in my career at the time, looking at, discussing, and interacting with real spiders was a regular part of my life. until this happened i was perfectly happy with that. eventually, the phobia got so bad i had to quit.
i'm working on my arachnaphobia with a therapist, and understanding how i came to develop the fear is an important part of recovering from it.
and NO, i don't think this exact path will be taken by everyone who pathologises their own feelings of disgust or discomfort at a subject. it's probably pretty unusual. i had underlying mental illness at the time that caused me to go from mild distress -> avoidance -> greater distress -> more avoidance -> phobia.
most people won't land on phobia, but it's possible that they are worsening their own distress at seeing the unpleasant subject by avoiding that subject, and asking others to facilitate this avoidance. of course, it's also possible that their current avoidance is the only thing KEEPING them from a phobia. it's impossible to know, and for that reason i'm hesitant to judge anyone for which boundaries they choose to develop or enforce, or how they choose to enforce those boundaries.
in fact, on that note:
"I feel like people often forget that people are, generally speaking, allowed to not have to deal with boundaries."
i absolutely agree. unfortunately, i also believe that in general, the only respectful (as in of someone as an individual, rather than of any particular boundary) way to choose not to deal with a particular boundary is to not interact with the person who has that boundary at all, or at least to avoid them in situations where that boundary is relevant.
and in a public space like a discord server, that can be difficult. blocking them doesn't stop them seeing your messages, only you seeing theirs. i am in a discord where i have a mutual block with someone because i asked them to block me, and they agreed that was for the best. i wish that was more normal, because mutual blocks are an excellent way of both enforcing your own boundaries AND respecting other's. mutual blocks are a great tool for respecting boundaries by not having to remember or deal with the specifics of those boundaries.
i think the most mature and constructive approach to not being able to (or wanting to) deal with someone's given boundaries is to explicitly tell them so. most people will, quite reasonably, tell you that's not okay and if you are't going to respect their boundaries then don't interact with them. in digital spaces, they likely will (and arguably should) then block you.
what boundaries someone develops or enforces is their business, and i make it a point to respect all stated boundaries as well as i'm able no matter what that given boundary is or how "silly" i personally find it. i'm sure some of my own boundaries look pretty "silly" to others, but i know why they're in place.
i'm firm about enforcing my own boundaries, and have a low tolerance of violations of them - but, blatant trolls excepted, i do NOT consider any particular boundary violation a moral failing on the part of the violator. the more people you know, the more boundaries there are to remember. especially in queer-friendly and neurodivergent spaces. even someone with a functional memory is going to forget a few boundaries now and then. also, in my case, i can't remember whether i've expressed a boundary to someone before. some of them don't come up very often, and are unusual.
i've got to learn to write shorter posts. to summarise:
if you don't want to (or can't) respect someone's boundary (or trigger, which is a boundary), that doesn't inherently make you a bad person. they're also not a bad person for expressing this boundary. you can just agree to not interact with each other. this should become more normal.
if a lot of people consider someone's boundary unreasonable, that individual may find fewer and fewer people are willing to interact with them because of that boundary, and may then re-examine the nature of the boundary and how they enforce it.
re-examining your own boundaries, why they're in place, and how you enforce them should also become more normal. it doesn't mean you have to change anything, or think about it constantly, but if you realise your boundaries are causing issues between yourself and others, it's a good idea to at least ask why.
AYRT
this is interesting! it seems like nature flight discord has a good handle on the situation, and i'm glad it's working there.
you're also right that non-"official" discords tend to have more relaxed, general-purpose attitudes, which result in more off-topic triggers being added to the list.
" if one is going to maintain a server where a broader scope of topics (and potential triggers) is discussed, it would be genuinely helpful to go all-in in detail there!"
i firmly agree. in fact, after they explained this to me i encouraged them to ask the curator of the trigger list to modify it to specify only videos, not still images or cartoons.
a lot of the items on that list are vague, and it's more a list of categories than specific triggers. this definitely contributes to the atmosphere that anything falling into a trigger category should be given equal weight as potentially harmful, and as it's a rather long list that's put a lot of things no-one actually objects to into the "potentially harmful" category.
in fact, i might end up using this thread to start a discussion on the matter.
this is interesting! it seems like nature flight discord has a good handle on the situation, and i'm glad it's working there.
you're also right that non-"official" discords tend to have more relaxed, general-purpose attitudes, which result in more off-topic triggers being added to the list.
" if one is going to maintain a server where a broader scope of topics (and potential triggers) is discussed, it would be genuinely helpful to go all-in in detail there!"
i firmly agree. in fact, after they explained this to me i encouraged them to ask the curator of the trigger list to modify it to specify only videos, not still images or cartoons.
a lot of the items on that list are vague, and it's more a list of categories than specific triggers. this definitely contributes to the atmosphere that anything falling into a trigger category should be given equal weight as potentially harmful, and as it's a rather long list that's put a lot of things no-one actually objects to into the "potentially harmful" category.
in fact, i might end up using this thread to start a discussion on the matter.
DA
I kind of like the idea of tone tags in theory, but I feel like a lot of people advocating for their use don't understand that in actual practice, tag indicators now are being used as much (or more) for adding sarcasm and hyperbole vs clarifying anything.
I kind of like the idea of tone tags in theory, but I feel like a lot of people advocating for their use don't understand that in actual practice, tag indicators now are being used as much (or more) for adding sarcasm and hyperbole vs clarifying anything.
I'm about to go to bed, but there's been a few threads about WarriorJames spending his college loans on FR, and I was in the Ice discord when he lamented that he was in the hospital for a few weeks and had substantial medical debt...
...yet he keeps spending IRL cash on FR, and though he hasn't been CAUGHT, folks have long suspected he's bought G1 imps on the black market.
IIRC, one of his G1 imps was scrolled BACK into a mirror bc he bought a duped scroll.
I'll try to find the threads tomorrow ♥
...yet he keeps spending IRL cash on FR, and though he hasn't been CAUGHT, folks have long suspected he's bought G1 imps on the black market.
IIRC, one of his G1 imps was scrolled BACK into a mirror bc he bought a duped scroll.
I'll try to find the threads tomorrow ♥
damn you really cant even mildly criticize waterdom here without someone jumping in to defend them. kinda funny to think about cause i know for sure at least one of waterdoms orgs uses this comm
SA
okay, it was bothering me, but I found it.
https://anonrerising.dreamwidth.org/1136.html?thread=501360#cmt501360
https://anonrising.dreamwidth.org/17039.html?thread=69738895#cmt69738895
https://imgur.com/a/VnFK3dm
okay, it was bothering me, but I found it.
https://anonrerising.dreamwidth.org/1136.html?thread=501360#cmt501360
https://anonrising.dreamwidth.org/17039.html?thread=69738895#cmt69738895
https://imgur.com/a/VnFK3dm
Tfw you have to select all the genes in AH in order to filter out the basic gene. I wish I could just choose to exclude basic instead...
...I've gotten so into G1s it's ruined my ability to enjoy G2+ dragons in my lair. :( Has anyone experienced this and if yes how did you "get over" it? I want to learn to love and appreciate my G2+ babies again.
i know how you feel, nonny. personally for me it was trying to get ultra specific XYZs and that tired me out because I thought the "ugliness"/ "randomness" of it would make them to find.
furthermore, something just *clicked* in me to find G2 versions of the colours people were selling. why pay 2000G for an XXY G1 Noc when I can find literally the same but for like, 10G?
I felt extremely happy that I get to save thousands in gems by buying an already breedchanged + gened up + perfect colour combo for cheap on the AH, and spend those gems on UMAs / Apparel to dress them up instead. Money wasn't a matter for me the whole time either
furthermore, something just *clicked* in me to find G2 versions of the colours people were selling. why pay 2000G for an XXY G1 Noc when I can find literally the same but for like, 10G?
I felt extremely happy that I get to save thousands in gems by buying an already breedchanged + gened up + perfect colour combo for cheap on the AH, and spend those gems on UMAs / Apparel to dress them up instead. Money wasn't a matter for me the whole time either
Oh yeah, one of the imp scroll duping scandals hit his lair, and turned one of his imps back into a fae. So he bought a fake scroll. He also lied to the people who had bought G2s from that pair when they asked why their G2s suddenly weren't pure anymore, said he'd turned it back for lore reasons.
As an attendant, I am just so grateful I'm not doing it out of pocket and can offer you those gem payouts.
(And no, I'm not saying anything about the update to fix that high badge level requirement.)
(And no, I'm not saying anything about the update to fix that high badge level requirement.)
Literally yesterday I saw POS used and thought that, and the person meant Point of Sale.... I could never figure out what the tone tag was meant to mean :P
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