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An important update:

Due to a specific person being a complete child, comments are going to be screened by default.

This is only temporary, and I apologize for the inconvenience- this is going to be a pain in the ass for me, too, but multiple people have come forward about fears of doxxing, and this is the only way to make sure any doxxing is contained.

(This basically will force the doxxer to make a DW account to post any doxxing attempts unscreened, and will let me more reliably report them to DW staff/authorities.)

Again, I apologize, and will be working to unscreen comments as fast as possible, but I'm only one person.

(Vasemod has had some personal issues come up, so I am the only mod atm. Please bear with me until this bit of annoyance has passed.)

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nayrt

so most anime fans are racist? bc being weird about east asian ppl is, in fact, racist. liking aesthetics is one thing but... yeah.

maybe i'm just in different groups on the internet but all the discord servers i'm in that use pepe emojis are very much the exact opposite of 4channers/alt righers

maybe a few years ago it was more like that? but i feel like a lot of online communities have kind of reclaimed pepe.

i definitely understand being wary of someone that uses them until you know them better, though.

i think i need more deeds on that than "gives dragons asian names", sorry. not defending saltmarsh, the transphobic shit already made them unlikeable to me, it's just that racism is a pretty serious thing to accuse someone of and i haven't read about "being weird about asians" in the screenshots provided so far

this is 90% of white people on petsites tbh. if I had a penny for everybody who wasn't asian and named their dragons asian names I'd be a quadrillionaire

lol this is one of the few times I'm grateful my language/culture isn't well known to white folks.

This was true several years ago, but like another anon said, it's been reclaimed, or started to have been, by many people in online communities, including Twitch streamers, whose (younger) viewers often don't know the history behind it. I think it's leaping to conclusions to paint everyone who uses Pepe emojis with the same brush.

AYRT

I didn't say I flat out block them, but folks should know the history of it, and should understand if people don't automatically trust them when they use said images.

I see someone use pepe and I hold them at arm's length until I know they're not a raging douche because I'm trans AND a racial minority targeted by Nazis.

I'm not an asshole for being careful.

other anon here

nah you're not wrong for being cautious. i'm older internet so i am also used to them mostly being used by alt right groups

when i first joined communities that used them i was super hesitant at first for the same reasons. a few years ago pepe was already starting to be used by non alt-right groups so it was kind of a 50/50 on them being a shitter or not

i think it's fine to be cautious so long as you're not being rude to someone just because they use them (not saying you do this nonny)

at least take some comfort in knowing that a lot of the younger crowd especially who uses them are most likely not racist/etc. which is great bc it's what the original pepe creator probably wants, and pepe emojis are funny lol

Not knowing what a caricature looks like doesn't make it not exist. You're on a site run by Americans with a huge American playerbase and so American qualms are extremely relevant, even if it doesn't matter to you personally.

I think there's been enough damage caused by warbonnet imagery that the crests should be redesigned. Shouldn't be too hard to add some more feathers to break up the silhouette and make it more animal-like.

Imperials are different, they're not extremely fraught/racist symbols that have been used to dehumanize, stereotype, and genocide entire (currently oppressed and impoverished) people. There are lots of brands and sports teams that still have Chiefs as their names or Generic Indian Wearing Headdress as their logo, and tonnes of Cowboys vs Indians movies that use this imagery. It already is everyone's problem.

that isnt what this is, though?

it's not styled to look like a war bonnet. its styled to look like a feather crest from a bird. having the same silhouette doesnt mean one needs to be changed, its not AT ALL similar to the examples you gave
someone who has earned the right to wear a war bonnet is not going to look at this fucking dragon and be offended because it has layered feathers

NAYRT If that’s the way you feel about it then yeah, I guess they are. It’s no secret that there’s a massive obsession for East Asian culture, especially among anime enthusiasts. Not ALL of them but… a lot. I’ve known many people who watch anime and I’d say a large number of them have decided that "Asian" is their new favorite way of life, to the point of learning Japanese and similar. And tbh, Wind flight aesthetics on FR takes big inspo from those cultures, so that right there should show you how prevalent it is… whether it should be considered fetishization or just flattery is subjective.

on top of the bigotry mentioned above, they're also super immature and will argue and give people shit for any reason. anyone who has "puppy" or "kitten" in their un is 9 times out of 10 a piece of shit

it's like people can't comprehend that words & phrases have different meanings/implications across locations & communities. when you enter an online space, you can meet anyone from anywhere. saltmarsh's perspective seems very self-centered, stuck, & resistant.

uncomfortable learning about new things -> uncomfortable confronting internal biases -> "guess i'll try hide that behavior from y'all instead of inspecting the reasons behind why you're asking me to change what i'm doing" attitude... one of those reasons being "we should want to speak in a way that doesn't make other people feel dehumanized." real simple concept, real low bar. the learning is lifelong - there will never be one easy solution, because conventions will continue to change, and no group is a monolith. but you (and in this post i use the word "you" as in "general you," not as in "anon i'm replying to") can't let that scare you away from learning & connecting to the world around you. stay curious, stay humble. respect yourself, respect others. care for yourself, care for others. something being Difficult doesn't keep it from being Worthwhile.

saltmarsh is acting so concerned with Not Being PERCEIVED As Bad, but they're stepping aaaall over themself. it's giving very "respectability politics" - like, "you better be careful of my feelings when you try to gently encourage me to respect your humanity, because i got mad after a conversation about pronouns once & took that as an excuse to justify my behavior & double down on my distaste for trans people in general (halo emoji)"

and like??? the stuff they're being asked to do is SO reasonable. "remember to type it as A/B/O if that's what you mean, so that you don't say a Literal Racial Slur instead." that particular type of fiction writing doesn't suit my taste, but i'm anti-censorship, so whatevver, you do you. if, however, i was in saltmarsh's place, i probably would've said something along the lines of "oh shit, really?? my bad, i had no idea. thanks for telling me. i'll keep that in mind going forward." because it's like, people educate others because they care. nobody is born knowing everything. at some point, we have to be taught. and it's not like saltmarsh was being lambasted - DD0S was very politely correcting/bringing new info to someone else, and saltmarsh came in like "um ACKSHUALLY we've normalized it within our niche, so no one cares." sure, intent does not equal impact, but once you learn that something you've been doing Without ill intent is part of a harmful pattern from the bigger picture (in this case, lazytyping the name of a literary microniche VS global colonialism causing the dehumanization of minority groups to be normalized even into casual speech), it's best to STOP & re-evaluate, not respond with what's essentially "eh, whatever, guess i'll try to hide that behavior from you oversensitive types."

DD0S is stuck with saltmarsh in screenshots from both of these convo topics actually. bless your patience [tone meant to be earnest, not sarcastic]. and sorry if i'm de-anoning you by noticing.

anyway. i'm a nonbinary adult - i use they/them pronouns & have the gender-indeterminate presentation my younger self would've killed for. people don't always know what to do with me, lol. most common reactions: indifference (my favorite), curiosity, nervousness, happiness, and anger, in no particular order. i feel bad for the people who get nervous about how to refer to me, because i genuinely do not care how i'm gendered and so no term is truly "wrong" in that way, but it is very sweet that they care enough to get anxious in the first place. i feel very useful for all the times i've had people come to me and say things like, "my friend/family member/coworker just came out as trans. you're the only one i know, what do i do?!" or "what even is gender affirming care anyway?" or "do you people really want litterboxes in the bathrooms at school?!" (which... no, lol. lmao. no.)

that's as far as my own lived experience goes, though, so it feels prudent to end this comment by passing the mic.

https://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/media/appropriate-terminology-for-aboriginal-topics

https://animikii.com/insights/why-we-say-indigenous-instead-of-aboriginal

https://indigenousfoundations.arts.ubc.ca/terminology/

(different anon) well, not caring that they used a slur against Aboriginal people is straight-up racist already.
the other anons are talking about a pretty common form of racialized fetishism.
feel free to peep the lair & come to your own conclusions.

https://www1.flightrising.com/clan-profile/393270
clan bio specifies "no pronouns"

https://www1.flightrising.com/den/393270/1785759?name=&type=undefined
first den tab description:

i. vulpes valley
collection: 203

"I cannot play with you," the fox said "I am not tamed."
"If you tame me, then we shall need each other. To me, you will be unique in all the world. To you, I shall be unique in all the world."
"Goodbye," said the fox. "Here is my secret. It's quite simple: One sees clearly only with the heart. Anything essential is invisible to the eyes."

I couldn't find this through their post history. Was it taken down? What did it say?

FWIW this is a quote from The Little Prince. Like, word for word. I don’t know how that impacts one way or another, since I haven’t done any in-depth studies of that since freshman high school, but that’s not something that they came up with.

https://frtools.nensec.com/newsreader/view/3289398?page=89

edit- oh damn it was shut down overnight.

Edited 2023-11-25 02:19 (UTC)

Idk about you, but that's just your average weeb.

tfw learning a new language is problematic.

ive never used this tool so i dont know the services they provided, but damn that sucks. it's always sad to see legitimately helpful websites squeezed dry

Gonna be real with you, I feel that it's probably based on a Hoopoe bird rather than any indigenous cultural attire.

Picture of the bird as reference
https://stock.adobe.com/images/hoopoe-exotic-bird-with-a-crest-on-its-head/210552217

It had an archive of all the replies, and basically AP said in one response that all the outcries of racism and appropriation meant he wanted a ton of them, and replied to a user voicing their concerns as a Native with a picture of a crying baby. (From what I remember)

tfw your native peoples language is dying out because it's cultural appropriation for others to learn it

gaht damn

like. you can disagree that things like the crests are culturally appropriative (i feel that way too!), or other criticisms, without being racist... but.. it's outright cruel to respond with malice like that. that's not disagreement, it's being a shitty person :(

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