It is partially a skill/community issue, but at this point I think it goes farther than that.
The algorithm itself is not messed up. My guess is that's it's pretty uncomplicated and linear so in theory, if every flight had the same culture and level of heavy exalting, it should work.
But because of how simple it is, it is easily gamed. If you look at dom data, Earth used to not be a powerhouse at all. They did not automatically win due to their size.
I guess over time, at some point people realized that Earth could easily be a powerhouse. More dom enthusiasts and heavy exalters were attracted to the flight, snowballing into the effect we see today.
If the algorithm was unbalanced and Earth had a real advantage, we'd see Fire doing way better than they are now. If you look at the number of times flights place in 4th/5th/6th in addition to the top three spots, you can get a. idea of how much passive exalting a flight is doing when they're not actively pushing. This is the work of the heavy exalters who keep doing their thing even without pushes.
According to this data, Fire is a weak dom flight. Despite their size, they have not attracted heavy exalters due to a weak dom program (I have met a bunch of people who left over the past year). Even Water, a strong dom flight, does not regularly place in the 4th/5th/6th spots.
If the algo was truly unbalanced, we'd see Fire and Water placing higher on average than they do now.
So yes, it is a skill/community issue in the sense that if other flights could somehow attract the heavy exalters too this wouldn't be an issue (a potential solution might be individual dom/exalting rewards). However, at this point Earth as a flight has "gamed" the algorithm to the point where Earth had to work hard to avoid going into WvE with fatigue. I think it's understandable that people are frustrated with that, though it's not really anyone's fault.
DA I don't disagree with you. I don't think the dom algorithm is broken. I do think that current dom culture is broken in a way that is not fixable unless the devs make some changes to how dom works, regardless of whether the algorithm is currently fair or not. Whether that's tweaking fatigue or adding dom cool-downs, overhauling the incentives, or adding something new to the mix.
So many heavy exalters moved to Earth that no other flight can compete on a regular basis. When other flights have to ask Earth to back off during their dom pushes just so that Earth doesn't place in the top two, it's a problem. I don't really think it's Earth's fault. They are just playing the game. But it is absolutely frustrating for other flights. It's at the point where I think most flights throw in a public buy during their solo conquests whether they want to or not just to give Earth somewhere to send their dragons.
Dom culture is broken in the "Hey we found we can minmax by being in Earth." way. Which basically broke the algorithm for all intents and purposes. If you could not change flights, it'd be perfect.
NAYRT but also not a disagreement, just an addition. Any algorithm gets "broken" if the game isn't changed in any significant way over the course of years. If you look at other PvP games, the formulas and stuff are tweaked regularly or new content is added to freshen up the meta.
FR admin would not have had to worry about community backlash if they had been messing with dom since the start - but now because they have left it alone for so long, any change is going to be a big shock, and some people are not going to roll with the punches well. It will be very interesting to see if they let the meta continue in this direction or what they end up changing.
Earth dom orgs do a good job with their events but it's also like they're playing a completely different game than the rest of the flights and that is so strange! I don't envy their position at all.
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Re: Dom Thread
(Anonymous) 2023-07-13 01:50 pm (UTC)(link)It is partially a skill/community issue, but at this point I think it goes farther than that.
The algorithm itself is not messed up. My guess is that's it's pretty uncomplicated and linear so in theory, if every flight had the same culture and level of heavy exalting, it should work.
But because of how simple it is, it is easily gamed. If you look at dom data, Earth used to not be a powerhouse at all. They did not automatically win due to their size.
I guess over time, at some point people realized that Earth could easily be a powerhouse. More dom enthusiasts and heavy exalters were attracted to the flight, snowballing into the effect we see today.
If the algorithm was unbalanced and Earth had a real advantage, we'd see Fire doing way better than they are now. If you look at the number of times flights place in 4th/5th/6th in addition to the top three spots, you can get a. idea of how much passive exalting a flight is doing when they're not actively pushing. This is the work of the heavy exalters who keep doing their thing even without pushes.
According to this data, Fire is a weak dom flight. Despite their size, they have not attracted heavy exalters due to a weak dom program (I have met a bunch of people who left over the past year). Even Water, a strong dom flight, does not regularly place in the 4th/5th/6th spots.
If the algo was truly unbalanced, we'd see Fire and Water placing higher on average than they do now.
So yes, it is a skill/community issue in the sense that if other flights could somehow attract the heavy exalters too this wouldn't be an issue (a potential solution might be individual dom/exalting rewards). However, at this point Earth as a flight has "gamed" the algorithm to the point where Earth had to work hard to avoid going into WvE with fatigue. I think it's understandable that people are frustrated with that, though it's not really anyone's fault.
Re: Dom Thread
(Anonymous) 2023-07-13 03:12 pm (UTC)(link)I don't disagree with you. I don't think the dom algorithm is broken. I do think that current dom culture is broken in a way that is not fixable unless the devs make some changes to how dom works, regardless of whether the algorithm is currently fair or not. Whether that's tweaking fatigue or adding dom cool-downs, overhauling the incentives, or adding something new to the mix.
So many heavy exalters moved to Earth that no other flight can compete on a regular basis. When other flights have to ask Earth to back off during their dom pushes just so that Earth doesn't place in the top two, it's a problem. I don't really think it's Earth's fault. They are just playing the game. But it is absolutely frustrating for other flights. It's at the point where I think most flights throw in a public buy during their solo conquests whether they want to or not just to give Earth somewhere to send their dragons.
Re: Dom Thread
(Anonymous) 2023-07-14 08:06 pm (UTC)(link)Re: Dom Thread
(Anonymous) 2023-07-16 06:03 am (UTC)(link)FR admin would not have had to worry about community backlash if they had been messing with dom since the start - but now because they have left it alone for so long, any change is going to be a big shock, and some people are not going to roll with the punches well. It will be very interesting to see if they let the meta continue in this direction or what they end up changing.
Earth dom orgs do a good job with their events but it's also like they're playing a completely different game than the rest of the flights and that is so strange! I don't envy their position at all.