anonrerising | Damnit, Arcanist

Not everyone is mad, some people are just confused and/or disappointed. If you aren't spending money, it's a profit push. There have been plenty of profit pushes were flights are also hoping to place.

1. Festivals have no bearing. Flights have battled in the months before and after their festival on several occasions.
2. Not sure about everyone else, but I assumed that no OOF boarding was part of whatever the battle terms were.
3. Two battles in one year is not unheard of. Maybe in the last year or two since battles have become so expensive, but Water could be ambitious. Who knows. Also, the current DW only goes up through September.
4. Using the word "with" is vague at best. It could be interpreted in several ways. I read it as these two flights are conquesting with each other. Ergo, battle. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Perhaps Dom Watch needs a key with clearer labeling.

+1

its weird that this is being interpreted as some outrage against wind/water. all ive seen is confusion or disappointment, and some criticism provided because of that. maybe theres some people mad in discords, but i havent seen any.

da

tbh i disagree about profit pushes; when i was involved in dom in my flight we all thought a profit push is purely when you expect to profit even if you place before third. if a flight is intending to get first w/o a public buy they might spend money buying leveled fodder off the AH but it wouldn't be obvious to OOF.

also, DW does list pushes after september in a document that's linked in the main post.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRYIVZ6pnTIIeRuAekjYcSyBeDTkLr7vjd3md5vV0D0Ak3d7ymdG64yUWJx_9iTLqUJy0RBnF4Br94Z/pubhtml?gid=547456187&single=true

the labeling looks pretty clear to me. in september, earth and and shadow are both conquesting "with". i'm gonna go ahead and guess that's not a battle given who's involved. then water vs fire in october and light vs arcane at the end of november, both clearly label as "vs". DW seems to be pretty consistent.

pebble here, yes it's not a proper conquest in terms of a battle. it's more earth supporting shadow who will be pushing for first.

That's the thing. Someone confused/disappointed needs to point out the problem so Domwatch can fix it for the future. Stop yelling at the flights and start saying battles need a battle label to the Dom Watch runner. I think the choice of wording is on them.

If you think someone is doing two battles in a year, your flight hasn't done a good all out battle in years. The stress of my last flight's battle made me stop dom participation. Because it kills all desire to want to deal with it. I went from hundreds of fodder to 14-20 at most in a push to get inflight badges if they catch my eye.

Dom Watch needs better push classification, yes, but Dom Watch shares what the Dom leads tell them. If the Dom leads provide misleading information, then why is it exclusively Dom Watch's fault for posting what they were told? They're both at fault here, imo

jfc it's not misleading information or the domwatch post would have in fact said "vs." to begin with; begging you all to get this through your heads.

this is the established domwatch terminology, and it's one thing if you'd like to advocate for the terminology itself being made clearer—but acting like being actively "misled" has any part in this makes it clear that actually you have no one to blame but yourself, and your own attitude that conquesting flights must by default exist as cash cows.

for the sake of water and wind, I want to clarify that I'm not in either flight; just someone who has been involved in my own flight's dom and is very frustrated by the experience of watching people froth at the mouths to profit off battles only to turn around and wonder why there aren't more of them.

Something can be misleading without having any malice behind it. You seem to be very kneejerk defensive on this, and I assume it's probably from past drama I missed, but just saying that information is misleading doesn't necessitate that there's some mastermind behind the scenes actively trying to deceive people. Just using poor wording (as is the care here, regardless of whether that's on Dom Watch, the flight heads, or more likely a mix of both) is enough to be misleading, but it's very possible (likely, in fact!) that everyone involved just thought the wording was clear and accurate to what they understood the push to be, and it was only when that got out to people who didn't have prior context ahead of time that it showed that people didn't necessarily have the same understanding as the organizers.

"With" and "Vs" are such a small change that I definitely think there needs to be some more distinction there. I could totally see myself missing that or just thinking it was different wording from a different host.

And before anyone gets preachy at me for "vulture" behaviour or whatever -- I haven't made a single gem off other flights' dom pushes in over 5 years. The only involvement I've had in dom during that time is in donating my own items and funds to dom banks, and before that, my primary involvement was in raffle attending (and occasionally in helping out with organizing). Never has dom been a significant source of my income, and in fact, I tend to be biased in favour of the pushing flights and their dom heads, rather than the people on the outside.

you know, that's a fair point

I do think that "mislead" has a fairly strong negative inflection to it, so I want to defend my own reaction as not solely kneejerk.
but I also always appreciate more positive/sympathetic readings of others' intents, and this is one I honestly missed—probably in part due to, yeah, confirmation bias with having seen some very pissy-sounding comments already.

Haven't really seen a whole lot of people yelling, just voicing their disappointment. I think the point is that the wording in DW is ambiguous. Some people expected something completely different than what was actually planned. The amount of information that we were all apparently supposed to infer from the word "with" is a bit ridiculous, whether that's on the people running DW or the flights relaying the information.

A clear labeling system in DW would solve that problem.

And honestly, the dom culture is different in each flight. What you find stressful, other people might thrive on. Flights often all-out battled more than once a year. In my flight we stopped battling as often because of cost, not stress. Which is what I'm assuming most flights have done. I just thought Water was being extra ambitious in planning their battles this year.

i honestly assumed water was up for the challenge considering how often their members talk about how hard they go and how big water is on dominance. theyve definitely pitched themselves on ARR as a "push and place as often as possible" dom culture so i didn't question them battling twice in one year. guess i was wrong tho

We're big on Dom culture and pushing. We aren't big on sabotaging ourselves, and frankly, 2 battles in a year would burn our small flight out and hand battle number two to whoever we challenged due to lack of funds.

We know how much a modern Dom battle can cost. It took us this long to recover from battling Earth. We're not going into a battle half assed.

And honestly, the way you're putting it shows that you aren't thinking about facts and logic and are just being a brat. No flight that hopes to win would do what you propose.

Please, whatever flight you're in, put it to your leadership that you want two full conquest battles in a year. I'm sure they'll get right on that.

dude you just owned me so hard with facts and logic shapiro style. my sincerest apologies for thinking that water was up for a fight.

How dare you insult Water by thinking they might be able to take on two flights in one year.

Thank you for confirming this part of the thread is nothing more than poor faith trolling and insults and not remotely based on reality. I'm out.

what did you expect lol. if you come in swinging with insults they'll respond in kind. did you forget what website youre on.

in any case this single reply being annoying to you personally doesn't change the fact that multiple people were confused, on and offsite. that is the reality.

dude why are you here lmao

if you thought you were going to have a serious conversation with people who aren't going to crack jokes at your boring ass, you're in the wrong place

Droplet here (not the same one as above) - Yes sometimes we decide if we see ourselves place high up on the board to try and score among the top 3, and yes we like to throw in extra fodder for that, and we put all of our effort into big Conquest pushes that are vs

But that does not mean we cannot have fun joint pushes that aren't us going all out (esp with an already pointed out big Vs battle happening later this year). Wind and Water is still aiming to score first, conquest PRIMARILY MEANS THAT, you are all just complaiming cause you can't cash out on us

Like Water has been pretty much the one flight of it's size making big Conquest pushes every 1-2 years, and I have not seen any other flights recently do that. Hell I would love to profit from other flights Conquesting as well in a big Vs manner, but you wont see me whining when its primarily been our flight doing big yearly pushes that got intense lately.

You all have to step up your game in other flights + the nonny calling people vultures for constantly wanting to profit off other flights doing big pushes but not pitch in effort and energy into their own flight's to have equally intense pushes is correct.

Also if this makes you claim we are not as much into Dom then idk what to tell you, like that is the stupidest takeaway from all of this

ayrt at what point did i say any of that. i said that waterdom frequently pitches itself as a dom-heavy flight, so of all the flights, i completely believed water would want to go for two battles and could handle it. obviously i was wrong to assume that, but that is in no way equivalent to me saying "hurhur water SUX!!!"

Literally no one is saying that you can't have fun joint pushes that aren't going all out. If it had been labelled as such, no one would be giving you shit. Expecting two flights that are conquesting at the same time to have PBs is not wildly unreasonable. Other flights wanting to take part in your push, whether they want money or badges or something completely different is not unreasonable. The shitty attitude from Water members in this comm is completely off-putting. You may want to think about that. Particularly since you have a big battle coming up in October and those "vultures" might decide to support any flight that isn't yours.

+1
Those insults peppered in from water-anons' posts certainly aren't helping their cause.

That said it would be funny if Earth snatches 1st/2nd spot from them this week. Pretty unlikely seeing that they're conquesting next week though.

+1

despite wind being the larger flight it only had one public member in this thread and it was to clarify that there were no PBs, whereas theres been multiple droplets stomping their feet here and on SMR because people had the gall to be disappointed.

i dislike fires history with shitty dom orgs but im starting to dislike water's attitude a lot more. if they really think of me as a vulture i'll happily go elsewhere.

If us expressing frustration at people being immediately going "Oh we are disappointed cause we cant cash in" and have a fun push translates to you as "feet stomping" then it's pretty sad. I am also out of this thread and will refrain from making further posts

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2023-06-05 22:14 (UTC) - Expand

If two frustrated droplets tired of being dogpiled and shit on for people misunderstanding Dom watch's terrible formatting is enough to drive you to supporting the other flight, I think you were already looking for a reason to do that.

I will say, the term vulture was harsh, but I was just exhausted of being treated like it's our fault that other people misunderstood and we're obviously lazy cheapskates and not trying hard enough. I shouldn't have used that term. I am just sick of feeling like I failed somehow. No public buy just keeps being thrown in our faces here and on Tumblr. And it always seems directed at water, rather than both sides of a mutually planned event. Wind is just as responsible for the lack. They're obviously just smarter than I am in that they aren't wading in here.

Feel free to shit on me all you want. I'm just leaving. I give up. It's not even worth trying because no matter what, someone is angry or disappointed in what I say. Including me. And I just feel miserable.

Fuck this push.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2023-06-06 15:53 (UTC) - Expand