DV created a bit of a lack of faith for new petsites going forward for a lot of people from what I've seen, and given that LW is showing those same signs of mismanagement and fumbling, maybe it's a kneejerk reaction at this point. People love FR, and it's a high bar to reach, but that should just become a motivator for new competitors to come in and do better than what any of them are doing right now. I've had people specifically tell me that LW looks interesting, but that they're not going to play or trade their FR stuff for anything because as it is right now, the foundation looks shaky. I've never encountered someone like you described though? And I'm in a ton of Discords and I think I've seen every post about LW so far on here...
I've been critical of LW in other posts, but I'm not rooting for it to fail. I highly doubt anyone is, really. My frustration, and many others is because I want the game to succeed, but everything I've discovered in the Early Access (which was never addressed nor changed come launch, hell they made things worse with the upgrades costing premium currency) gave me the same warning signs that DV gave me. And the fact that all of this fell on deaf ears is an exact repeat of how DV went. They fixed things at launch, finally, (talking about both LW and DV here) but it was too little too late for some people, and for others they just see it as a way to retain those new people joining in before everything all crumbles and it goes to shit, which is how DV went.
I agree that competition is important, though I'm reluctant to agree with you that all of this behind the scenes stuff is due to LW. Didn't this happen with Veilspuns, too? FR staff had already began livestreaming more with the carousel recolors and gene fixes, and this was months before LW was set to launch. DV was dead in the water at this point, so...
I won't deny that FR staff is probably more motivated to do some of their stuff because of a new petsite launch, but honestly when LWs launch hit I hardly saw this pattern in behaviour you're talking about. FR is very anti crunch, so I doubt they would try to push something out to try to take some of that hype back, as well. These ancient streams started a few weeks after LWs launch, you'd figure it'd be sooner if that were the case.
I know you're trying to differentiate people who express dislike from those who automatically want LW to fail, but... "it feels like some people are sitting at the edge of their seats and circling like vultures over any tiny little misstep in the hopes that it will fail" in relation to the people in this comm, at least...
Have you seen what people have been talking about here? The monetization system and layered RNG? I would hardly call those tiny missteps. I'd love to know more about what you're talking about, because I've never seen these vultures here nor in Discords.
I just started LW, and no I don't want it to fail.
However, I have also played a LOT of pet sites, most of which are no longer there (or the site is there but haven't gotten updates in years). The sad fact is, a lot of people create pet sites thinking it is going to be a huge and easy cash grab, then realize it takes a LOT to keep them going. They have an idea of how they are going to make it *different* and/or *better* than this other site (what ever site it may be) and try and then realize why that other pet site did something the way it did.
I am not sitting on the edge of my seat waiting for LW to fail, but I sort of expect it to, because that is the fate of a great many pet sites, even if they have the best of starts or great premises.
As for FR reacting to LW opening? I really doubt it. I think it is more because FR is getting to a place where they ARE able to do these things. They are nearing the end of a, what, pretty much 10 year refactor/revamp/rewrite of the sites code, and are getting popular enough to be able to hire more artists. They have resources to do these things now, when before they didn't.
Sure, I won't deny that there may be an element of 'we have a competitor' in them wanting to get more things out, but honestly, with the way pet sites are set up, there aren't really 'competitors' in the sense 'oh no FR's player base will up shop and leave for LW'. Those players who DO leave, would have left FR anyway. It is possible to play the two games at the same time. The only way I could see LW as a true competitor to FR is if it were about dragons and was basically the same game as FR, or both games required players to be online for hours at a time.
I have 4 or 5 petsites I 'play' each day, because most petsites are a 'come and click for a few minutes and then wait to click again' type game.
Oops. I had a previous draft that specifically mentioned a bit more detail than the final draft of my OP, but between drafting the first version and then trying to cut it down for length (yes, that was the SHORT version by a significant %), I omitted some content including details that would've clarified a few things. For example, I specifically remember writing that ARR specifically hadn't been too bad about the pitchforks (minus the one Anon who outright lied about MS to $ pricing, which was quite odd), but that must have been in a paragraph I cut. My apologies.
The post was not directed toward ARR anons hyper-specifically so much as a global FR audience. This particular time on LW's release, I've mostly seen it on the site (before posts got deleted), but in the past I've seen it more in community discords and various salt communities. However, given that this is one of the few places I'm active and that I know won't just immediately shut down the conversation, this was where I had to post it. So it was less in direct reaction to comments here (where I agree with you that people have been very reasonable with very few exceptions), and more about broader FR sentiment as a whole. That was also part of why I felt comfortable drawing the sports team tribalism parallel (assuming it was largely going to be people responding with observations rather than directly, though I certainly hoped to draw a couple direct people in), but again, looks like I cut a LOT of that paragraph too. I really fucked up on not editing for content rather than just spellchecking after cutting it down so heavily; a lot didn't make it through. lol
As for veilspuns, I admit I don't know on that one. I'll take your word for it, but iirc that was during a time in my life I just didn't have the energy to devote to even logging in once a month to FR, so I missed most of the announcements at the time, and so my impressions were based on older breeds where I hadn't seen similar streams or in-the-moment content (or when occasional sneak peeks popped up, not nearly as whole as an entire stream).
Again, that's totally my bad on fucking up the cuts badly. There was more to the post too, but it was obnoxiously long and I figured no one would read it at the old length (and I was getting it checked over by someone to make sure it read okay so I didn't want to subject them to a full novel). I really should've been more careful about what I cut though, that's mb, and I'm sorry.
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(Anonymous) 2023-05-27 02:18 pm (UTC)(link)I've been critical of LW in other posts, but I'm not rooting for it to fail. I highly doubt anyone is, really. My frustration, and many others is because I want the game to succeed, but everything I've discovered in the Early Access (which was never addressed nor changed come launch, hell they made things worse with the upgrades costing premium currency) gave me the same warning signs that DV gave me. And the fact that all of this fell on deaf ears is an exact repeat of how DV went. They fixed things at launch, finally, (talking about both LW and DV here) but it was too little too late for some people, and for others they just see it as a way to retain those new people joining in before everything all crumbles and it goes to shit, which is how DV went.
I agree that competition is important, though I'm reluctant to agree with you that all of this behind the scenes stuff is due to LW. Didn't this happen with Veilspuns, too? FR staff had already began livestreaming more with the carousel recolors and gene fixes, and this was months before LW was set to launch. DV was dead in the water at this point, so...
I won't deny that FR staff is probably more motivated to do some of their stuff because of a new petsite launch, but honestly when LWs launch hit I hardly saw this pattern in behaviour you're talking about. FR is very anti crunch, so I doubt they would try to push something out to try to take some of that hype back, as well. These ancient streams started a few weeks after LWs launch, you'd figure it'd be sooner if that were the case.
I know you're trying to differentiate people who express dislike from those who automatically want LW to fail, but... "it feels like some people are sitting at the edge of their seats and circling like vultures over any tiny little misstep in the hopes that it will fail" in relation to the people in this comm, at least...
Have you seen what people have been talking about here? The monetization system and layered RNG? I would hardly call those tiny missteps. I'd love to know more about what you're talking about, because I've never seen these vultures here nor in Discords.
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(Anonymous) 2023-05-27 06:51 pm (UTC)(link)However, I have also played a LOT of pet sites, most of which are no longer there (or the site is there but haven't gotten updates in years). The sad fact is, a lot of people create pet sites thinking it is going to be a huge and easy cash grab, then realize it takes a LOT to keep them going. They have an idea of how they are going to make it *different* and/or *better* than this other site (what ever site it may be) and try and then realize why that other pet site did something the way it did.
I am not sitting on the edge of my seat waiting for LW to fail, but I sort of expect it to, because that is the fate of a great many pet sites, even if they have the best of starts or great premises.
As for FR reacting to LW opening? I really doubt it. I think it is more because FR is getting to a place where they ARE able to do these things. They are nearing the end of a, what, pretty much 10 year refactor/revamp/rewrite of the sites code, and are getting popular enough to be able to hire more artists. They have resources to do these things now, when before they didn't.
Sure, I won't deny that there may be an element of 'we have a competitor' in them wanting to get more things out, but honestly, with the way pet sites are set up, there aren't really 'competitors' in the sense 'oh no FR's player base will up shop and leave for LW'. Those players who DO leave, would have left FR anyway. It is possible to play the two games at the same time. The only way I could see LW as a true competitor to FR is if it were about dragons and was basically the same game as FR, or both games required players to be online for hours at a time.
I have 4 or 5 petsites I 'play' each day, because most petsites are a 'come and click for a few minutes and then wait to click again' type game.
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(Anonymous) 2023-05-30 01:17 pm (UTC)(link)The post was not directed toward ARR anons hyper-specifically so much as a global FR audience. This particular time on LW's release, I've mostly seen it on the site (before posts got deleted), but in the past I've seen it more in community discords and various salt communities. However, given that this is one of the few places I'm active and that I know won't just immediately shut down the conversation, this was where I had to post it. So it was less in direct reaction to comments here (where I agree with you that people have been very reasonable with very few exceptions), and more about broader FR sentiment as a whole. That was also part of why I felt comfortable drawing the sports team tribalism parallel (assuming it was largely going to be people responding with observations rather than directly, though I certainly hoped to draw a couple direct people in), but again, looks like I cut a LOT of that paragraph too. I really fucked up on not editing for content rather than just spellchecking after cutting it down so heavily; a lot didn't make it through. lol
As for veilspuns, I admit I don't know on that one. I'll take your word for it, but iirc that was during a time in my life I just didn't have the energy to devote to even logging in once a month to FR, so I missed most of the announcements at the time, and so my impressions were based on older breeds where I hadn't seen similar streams or in-the-moment content (or when occasional sneak peeks popped up, not nearly as whole as an entire stream).
Again, that's totally my bad on fucking up the cuts badly. There was more to the post too, but it was obnoxiously long and I figured no one would read it at the old length (and I was getting it checked over by someone to make sure it read okay so I didn't want to subject them to a full novel). I really should've been more careful about what I cut though, that's mb, and I'm sorry.