Right? I find that so hard to believe lol, no one in their right mind is turning away a sprite, let alone a light sprite even if it "misses the deadline".
That whole reply just goes to show what type of person she is and she yet again just spews a bunch of shit without doing anything. Literally no point to her response here at all imo, just the same old bullshit she always says and is still rude as hell too. I'd maybe feel more sympathetic towards her if not for the way she speaks to and about people.
Well who are the people running those raffles? Is there any way to maybe ask them? The light dom team I mean?
I guess I understand not wanting to bother them about it and drag them into drama but also I am equally curious about their raffle donation policy and whether or not they would accept a late light sprite.
In Light, not in LightDom team. I can actually see this situation happening in a very specific edge case, though I can’t say if this actually happened.
Our dom team has 2 policies. 1 - openness and clear communication, and 2 - a no strings attached donation policy. Unless you’re organising a dom event yourself, any donations you give to the vault are given to the team to be used as they see fit. This means that if someone donates a light sprite, the dom team is probably going to hold onto it for a battle, not just use it in a random profit push. Additionally, if someone is running an event, the team QCs it to make sure it’s up to their standard and then gives them their head.
All this means that if Player E comes to the team and says “I want to donate my light sprite to this raffle that’s going on”, the dom team might say “that’s a profit push raffle and we’re halfway through the week. It would be silly to accept a light sprite for that. Also we’re not going to dump that on the person running the raffle who was expecting normal traffic because they’ll be overwhelmed. Can we use this sprite next time we battle instead?”.
Did this happen? No clue. But that would be my read on a plausible take of the situation.
She worded it a bit strangely but I'm willing to bet it's something innocent and mundane reason like that. Like yeah you can think she sucks but I really don't think she'd be dumb enough to try and make shit up about donating things to raffles when it's verifiable. Like, she'd be shooting herself in the foot on purpose at that point.
In general, I don't really feel like there's a reason to believe she's just straight up lying about her history with light sprites. you may argue that there's no concrete proof she hasn't been intentionally buying up the sprites just to inflate them as a massive middle finger to the community; but there's also not really any proof against it that I've seen? Do we actually know for sure, with proper evidence, that she's done this?? Or have people just observed her activity on the sprites market and jumped to conclusions because this just so happens to be about a very desirable retired item.
Bragging about owning light sprites or just being an ass towards the community isn't proof that she's been attempting to rule the lightsprites market with an iron fist. I don't think it's a crazy wild concept that someone would want to own many copies of one item, even if it's an expensive one, because they like it so much; look at WarriorJames. I myself didn't go broke over buying a dozen tricktrouper crowns (my favourite y1 item) some years back as an investment, but I'd be lying if I said I haven't been considering reselling them for profit now that talk of retiring y1 stuff keeps coming up again and again.
Basically. I have been operating on the tentative belief so far that Elisabluh did purposefully market manipulate the light sprites at least to some extent because everyone's seemed so convinced of that, but if anyone got concrete proof of that I'd like to see it. Or at least point me to some older arr threads where I might find something
I'm also operating on the tentative belief. Someone did post this: https://anonrerising.dreamwidth.org/6960.html?thread=8072240#cmt8072240 (link to the post with links) which isn't outright proof but inserting herself into conversations about it to stoke people up does seem to be a pattern of behavior.
She's sold at least six (that she's posted about on the light sprite game database page anyway) but obviously that's not confirmation of anything either. It is interesting to see it suddenly shoot upwards in the game database comments, but again that isn't proof that it's her doing even if it is suspicious that all of the suddenly-high priced ones selling are hers.
Imgur in case she deletes the database comments: https://imgur.com/a/Hk1jvKq
oh yeah to clarify I'm talking mainly in reference to Elisabluh's recent post on tumblr explaining the situation (there is an imgur album here in the thread of it already somewhere so I'll just post the link to it https://www.tumblr.com/ebluh/764346610997133312)
it's here that she confirms she is the one who has been selling the sprites that she's noted down on the database, and she says three things. 1. she collected the sprites because she liked them a lot; 2. started selling them because she doesn't want to get fucked over in case they are unretired; 3. she set higher prices than what the sprites were typically going for because she values the sprites highly and wanted to take that chance. I get that not everyone would want to believe this but personally that sounds reasonable enough to me, with how I feel similarly about my own y1 collection.
she also says that when she started listing the sprites for higher-than-normal prices, all the lower ones disappeared but not because of her, but people assumed that she did it because her listings ended up being the only ones there. I don't know if there's any way to actually find the truth here but it's not unreasonable to think that the cheaper listings just expired and the sellers were hesitant to relist when they saw her price hike, or the listings got bought by someone else when they saw it alongside the higher listings. A 50kg light sprite can easily look like a steal next to a 100kg light sprite to someone who wants it but hasn't been closely studying its price history.
thing is, you can still absolutely be unhappy with Elisabluh's decision to list her sprites for much higher than what they were going for, even if the intent wasn't to hike the prices. It still had that effect, because of how scarce and sought after the sprite is. With how many people want it, it's understandable to feel frustrated at the rapid increase. But painting her as malicious and trying to find reasons why she's terrible and should be banned feels like such an awful overreaction to what, in the end, is a pixel item.
but like I said, if there is any actual concrete unbiased proof that she did indeed maliciously buy up the cheaper sprites and relist them with the sole purpose of artificially increasing its value, I will look at it.
this is also what I think is the most likely explanation.
has elisabluh been at times needlessly smug about having a light sprite collection? yeah, at least imo. but i find this kind of very human (in the fully flawed sense of "human") explanation to be much easier to believe than one of mustache-twirling light sprite supervillainy.
I know this thread is kinda losing steam now but before that happens I wanted to add anyway that regardless of whether or not you think she's terrible for price hiking light sprites, they did sell. Enough people were willing to shell out the gems despite the price tag and that just goes to show that the light sprite is so scarce and so desired that people WILL pay those increased prices. It wasn't a one-off, it happened with all the sprites she listed. Sure, some of these may have been panic buys. But that doesn't change the fact that they happened. They wouldn't have happened if people felt there was enough of a guarantee that the prices would go down again.
I get that the idea of an item of such rarity staying at a stable, slowly-increasing price that you can reasonably catch up to is comforting and any deviation from that feels like an anomaly, but I genuinely don't think it's wise to expect that anymore from the light sprite. The userbase is growing rapidly, and the amount of light sprites reliably available on the market is going down. Its status as the fabled first and rarest sprite isn't helping it; many want it more than the other sprites because of that mythical status. Maybe at some point many years ago it was fair to expect that its price would be slow-increasing like that of other more abundant retired items, but now that feels a bit like wishful thinking.
This is the light sprite. Not enough people have them for sale to keep the price stable anymore. Someone decides they wanna sell their sprite for much higher than what it sold for previously? Yeah as far as the userbase is concerned, that's the lowest it'll ever be again, because it's not like several other sellers are just gonna come out of the woodwork every time and start undercutting. Those sellers don't exist. It's easy to think that this did happen and that Elisabluh just bought those listings to relist them but that just sounds like copium if I'm honest. This is the nature of an item that has become so incredibly scarce and coveted.
Flaw in your arguement: Plenty of kickstarter items, which may be as rare or rarer considering the number on inactive and banned accounts, haven't gone up anywhere near as much as the lightsprite. In fact, I could get some Kickstarter items cheaper.
flaw how? so KS items are less popular than the light sprite, how is that a flaw? I even made a point about how the light sprite specifically has achieved a kind of fabled, mythical status that in many people's eyes elevates it even above some kickstarter items by the looks of it. It looks better than most kickstarter items as well in my opinion, I know I'd take it any day over all four of the KS familiars. It's a cute little golden fairy and the glowy golden light aesthetic is like #1 in the list of popular aesthetics. Having a full sprite set seems to be of larger interest among collectors than having a full KS item set. I can imagine most collectors have resigned themselves to the mindset that KS items are just not worth it. But majority of the sprites are still reasonably obtainable and the human desire to complete your set is pretty natural.
Also, when it comes to kickstarter item sales, they tend to be more researched, especially for the more popular ones (bone fiend, skycat, gilded crown). People are more likely to turn to the forums to buy/sell them because it's considered a big deal, and look into the sale history more thoroughly before buying/selling. And I mean, as of typing this, the only KS item on the AH right now is a cranial hornhelm which is up there for 2x the amount that, according to the database, it has sold for previously so it's not like AH sellers aren't trying to get more out of KS stuff as well.
my issue with all this is that she goes around acting like light sprites *aren't* actually selling for as much as she and everyone else is now selling from for: https://archive.is/qzOOg
what you explained is totally reasonable but combined with her recently comments and how she's behaved for the past multiple years on this topic, i have a really hard time giving her that much charitability.
the reason why i doubt that the price increase was natural because the lower ones simply expired is this:
1. although light sprites are not huge in number, people who are selling are generally aware of what the price ranges have been. it was also pretty common knowledge that light sprites were typically 60kg-70kg
2. people are clearly not actively buying at the current price. showcased in the recent FRD thread by multiple people specifically stating they refuse to buy light sprites at the current price. people like 888 who very obviously would be able to easily pay the current price. also with elisabluh's tumblr post showing someone trying to actively haggle down her price to 135kg and being rejected
3. what happens when no one is buying at a price? it naturally goes down as people adjust trying to find sellers
i strongly think that elisabluh (and possibly others) bought out the cheaper listings to enforce this new price. it just doesn't make sense otherwise why the price hasn't fallen by any noticable amount when it's clear the buying market are unhappy with the current price, are trying to unsuccessfully haggle or are outright refusing to purchase until the price falls.
this. it's really hard to get archives of any of the shit they were pulling in 2021-2022 when the jumps really started to get large, possibly because they searched their own forum history for and deleted anything incriminating.
but you can still find posts of other people indirectly (because callouts are against the rules) mentioning their multiple overpriced light sprites and also the shitty attitude they've always had about selling them at the then current market price.
for example they used to have in their bio that you basically had to humiliate yourself if you even wanted to attempt to make an offer on their sprites.
nevermind that they definitely were pulling the "list at 90/100k the minute all the other listings expire" in order to trick people into paying those prices. it's like the people who vastly overprice certain pieces of low-stocked apparel or genes on the AH to take advantage of players that don't know any better but ramped up to 11.
I did already address most of this in the other post I just made. As for that last paragraph, I wish it was easier to prove that because it once again just sounds very bad faith. I'm not saying it's impossible to do that sort of thing, and maybe she really did, to try and have a better chance of selling her sprites for higher. But she's not like, bound to other listings and their timers? If the previous listings expired and their owners didn't relist, how's that her fault? They could have relisted, and made her higher listing look really overpriced in comparison. But because they didn't, I take it people got the idea that she must have bought them. I guess if there ever was any instances of her admitting to doing that on the forums, it would be gone now? But this doesn't really seem like anything she'd want to admit to in public in the first place.
ayrt (sorry about textwall, I wanted to be thorough with my explanation)
I want to note that at this point, saying that the sprites are still worth 60-70kg feels like wishful thinking. It's a reference point everyone clings to because they just don't want to believe that the price hike isn't some anomaly that needs fixing. If it really was supposed to be 60-70kg then it would be. Even with Elisabluh having a small collection of them and listing them for higher, they would be. But they're not, not solely because of her listings, but because there also aren't enough other light sprite sellers to reliably bring the price back down. To assume that Elisabluh or some other rich player is the one preventing that from happening by snapping up every lower price listing before others even have a chance to see it sounds like, well, copium like I said.
And from what I understand, it really is all just bad faith conclusions. She has/had multiple sprites? she must be hoarding them for profit. She is listing them for way too much? she must be trying to price hike them. She is acting annoying about it on the forums and offsite? futher proof that she is just doing this to fuck with the light sprites audience. She doesn't support unretiring the sprites? that's because she doesn't want her evil light sprites empire to topple!
Elisabluh said however that she collected light sprites because she liked them (again look at WarriorJames, this wouldn't even be an isolated case), but because of the potential future where the sprites get unretired she decided to sell her collection, which makes perfect sense to me and I already explained why. Also; listing a light sprite for a super high price while agreeing that it probably isn't actually worth that much are two things that can coexist. She said that she didn't want to settle on LAH for her light sprites because she wouldn't even have sold them if the threat of the sprites being re-released wasn't potentially on the horizon.
People saying they won't buy at that price is well and good, but doesn't change anything. Wishing to stick to a price even though most of your potential buyers won't bite isn't proof of malice. Stubbornness? Sure. But that's her choice. People can go on the forums. They can make offers. If they're able to catch a seller willing to sell for 60-70kg, then that's great! If they aren't... I guess that's the moment where they start pointing fingers at Elisabluh because the community tells them to, instead of accepting that this item is just not that readily available anymore without needing to blame any one person? Like, if you refuse to buy at Elisabluh's prices, but you can't find anyone selling for a lower price, your immediate conclusion is that this one single person must own a significant enough chunk of light sprites to ensure that the price remains like 2-3x of 60kg? Really? That makes more sense to you?
Imo people like 888 act just as annoying, with how antagonistic they're being. 888 is someone many look up to and see as a role model as well, so it's not like he's helping people keep rational about it. Once again I'm not saying it's unreasonable to be frustrated about the price of the light sprite or to think that Elisabluh is annoying and toxic but I still stand by my point: she does not deserve to be condemned or banned over this, and this talk about her intentionally keeping the sprites and their prices in a stranglehold seems highly unfounded on anything other than bitterness.
i never said that i think light sprites should *still* be 60kg-70kg however i was referencing that because at the time when they started to very drastically jump in price, that was the standard value at the time. of course they would normally be worth more now, but it's completely ridiculous to think that they should be anywhere near 180kg-200kg which is more expensive then some sought after KS items.
idk why you jumped on that so hard. i mostly brought it up because you seemed to think that the price only jumped 2 years ago because all the cheaper listings expired. that's not the case at all... someone listing their sprite for higher than normal would not cascade into the price being as high as it is now. imo there are clearly more factors at play here and i do believe it involves elisabluh and other players purchasing cheaper sprites to keep the price high.
elisabluh is just getting the brunt because honestly, she's being obnoxious and a dick about it for no reason. it's not even someone lashing out because people are speculating about them, it's going out of her way to light the flames back up when no one had been talking about it. and this has been going on for *years* at this point. like the other anon said, sadly a lot is probably not archived or no longer exists, but i have some clear memories of them being even more insufferable back when DRR was more active and the topic was brought up there.
no clue why you went on this rant about how 888 is a "role model" and should be above... what exactly? expressing their opinion and calling out someone who is actively *lying*?? get off it. what they posted was perfectly reasonable and was echoed by a lot of other players who i'm sure can think for themselves and are not influenced by this so called "role model"
i also wanted to mention that elisabluh is *actively* making it so that MORE people know that it's HER people are talking about when they say "SOMEONE caused the market to skyrocket".
the only way you know that it's referencing elisabluh is if you read drama blogs, and i think people drastically overestimate how many FR players either read or are even aware of places like ARR or SMR.
think of how many people on "normal" FRD-goers (normal is bad word but i just mean ppl unaware of drama) now know that people are talking about her because of how she's been acting this past week lol all of those people who now know it's HER instead of idk, ignoring it? reporting the topic and moving along? if she's so certain she's done nothing wrong it really makes it hard to believe when she keeps letting more people know this is about her and how she totally never did anything oh btw no one is actually buying at 120kg+ pls ignore the tumblr post that i made where someone offered me 135kg for mine lololol
oh no I don't think you specifically are clinging to 60-70kg but it does look like much of the crowd that's currently mad about it thinks that since that's the price they remember it being before the rapid increase, it should still be in that specific range because the hike was artificial and it's all this one user's fault. Idk if I'd describe my attempt to be thorough about my observations as jumping on it, but I do see it mentioned time and time again as if it's some sacred light sprite price range and everything above it is too high.
and well I suppose it'll remain a situation where depending on how you interpret the details and facts we do have, you have to draw your own conclusions because there isn't concrete proof for what she's done exactly and why. We know she's sold several light sprites for high prices. We know that other, lower-priced listings have gone MIA. We know that she acts like an ass about it all. But I myself would rather not accuse her of hoarding and price manipulation without proof, as tempting as it may be.
And yeah, being an ass about it doesn't help her, though I still am disappointed in the community for also continuously bringing it up on the forums and engaging with her. It doesn't really help, even if initially no names are named. it usually ends up with people commenting with their distaste and desire to have the responsible user banned well before Elisabluh herself shows up. it's not really anyone's business to be talking and speculating about the actions of one user on the forums, because that user is still a real person playing the game.
as for 888, I didn't intend for it to be a rant as much as it was an expression of mild disappointment, rather. in that archive he's calling her out on something that really honestly doesn't matter? like ok she failed to mention a 145kg sale of a light sprite because she was too lazy to do her research... ok? what a terrible lie to tell. As for the 135kg offer that she didn't take, sure she could have included it as a reference but the fact that she didn't because it never became an official sale isn't like, egregious or anything. She turned it down, so there's no knowing if that sale would have actually gone through for 135kg if she'd accepted; the person offering could have tried to haggle more, or offer partial in items, or changed their mind etc.
I'm also not saying 888 is obligated to act like a role model, but being popular usually comes with that neat little bonus where people will think he's correct about everything just because he's, well, popular. I'm sure players can think for themselves but it's not hard to see them siding with 888 over Elisabluh in the midst of everything. The callout just comes off as an attempt to get a one-up over her for the sake of it, instead of being a helpful heads-up.
just as I post this, it seems like another lightsprite prices thread has been made. I wonder how this one will go. it doesn't have many posts and may or may not gain traction so I'm not sure if it's worth archiving yet but, here: https://www1.flightrising.com/forums/frd/3370756
soo Elisabluh has not posted I this thread and the conversation is going exactly how I predicted it would. https://imgur.com/a/XI8Fj3N
It's baffling enough when people just believe when they're told this, let alone the fact that it's spoken about like some kind of playground rumour. Regardless of if it's actually true or not, no one even questions it? I really don't blame Elisabluh for being uncomfortable with these kinds of exchanges and wanting to say something about it
Okay, but again, these players don't even know who the user in question is supposed to be. Only after Elisabluh made a mess of herself on the last thread did people start caring and clowning on them.
If they're not responsible for the state of the Light Sprite market, why do they even need to go post on those threads anyway? What's that saying... a hit dog will holler?
yeah that's true but my point is that the way people bring it up so eagerly and then everyone just believes them is very uncomfortable to observe even for me, even though I'm not the one being talked about. I don't think this kind of gossiping should be done so freely on the site itself. They're still taking about a real person who is also on the site /with them/ and openly stating shit like "wow that's so scummy, FR users are normally nice but this user isn't, sad face :("
Like they can hold that opinion, fine, but talking about it openly like that is so weird, especially since someone just dropped in and said it like it's hard facts without backing it up and they just got believed. By everyone. Like oh my god?
i think you're missing the point regarding her being called out on a lie. she came to a thread about people asking hey why are light sprites so expensive, and countered by saying "well acksually" they are not going for over 120kg
despite *knowing* that they do, and *knowing* that she's trying to sell one for 200kg and *knowing* that someone just offered her 135kg for hers. it's a deliberate gaslight IMO to try and convince people that things aren't actually that bad (when they are). it's the small things like this that add up to the bigger conclusions that people are speculating and believe.
it's such a weird thing to lie about. when she has absolutely sold them for that price and higher.
idk what to tell you though, people are definitely allowed to complain about these things and yeah it probably does suck when people call you out on your bullshit. she's an asshole and she absolutely deserves all the negative attention she's getting, whether or not some of those negative opinions are warranted or even correct. she is causing this problem two fold by even involving herself with this mess to begin with, and continuing to be antagonistic and a shitty person overall.
there is a reason that people specifically bring up this topic, and often times it's truly by people who have no idea what's going on, maybe they came back to FR and noticed that the price jumped to such an extreme amount and want to know. there really aren't other items that have gone through this kind of behavior, so i think it's normal that people ask questions?
you don't have to accuse her of things you don't agree with, but there are enough people who are familiar with her actions, behaviors and she's doing herself no favors with her actions. people are always going to speculate and it's only gotten this far because of *her* actions.
fair enough. whether or not that's an intentional attempt to gaslight or a lazy blunder on her part, the 120kg vs 135kg vs 145kg thing just doesn't feel that impactful to me. like you said, it's a weird thing to lie about and I'm not sure what she would have been trying to achieve by intentionally lying about this when her own current public listing price is 200kg. that's easier to find than recent confirmed sales. as far as I'm concerned, 120kg is expensive enough, and 15-25kg above that doesn't make a massive difference anymore.
and yeah people are allowed to complain, that's what salt spaces are for; but in that thread I linked, only the third post down is already spreading the rumour again and it's just uncomfortable to read: https://i.imgur.com/UFDCAfK.png
I guess I just wish this was, at the very least, kept to salt spaces. I do hope Elisabluh doesn't respond to this one and that the thread just dies down, but people still shouldn't just get to vague about other users like this on the forum itself.
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anonrerising2024-10-08 11:48 am
(frozen comment) Re: Elisabluh
(Anonymous) 2024-10-15 03:57 am (UTC)(link)That whole reply just goes to show what type of person she is and she yet again just spews a bunch of shit without doing anything. Literally no point to her response here at all imo, just the same old bullshit she always says and is still rude as hell too. I'd maybe feel more sympathetic towards her if not for the way she speaks to and about people.
(frozen comment) Re: Elisabluh
(Anonymous) 2024-10-15 01:57 pm (UTC)(link)I guess I understand not wanting to bother them about it and drag them into drama but also I am equally curious about their raffle donation policy and whether or not they would accept a late light sprite.
(frozen comment) Re: Elisabluh
(Anonymous) 2024-10-15 04:02 pm (UTC)(link)Our dom team has 2 policies. 1 - openness and clear communication, and 2 - a no strings attached donation policy. Unless you’re organising a dom event yourself, any donations you give to the vault are given to the team to be used as they see fit. This means that if someone donates a light sprite, the dom team is probably going to hold onto it for a battle, not just use it in a random profit push. Additionally, if someone is running an event, the team QCs it to make sure it’s up to their standard and then gives them their head.
All this means that if Player E comes to the team and says “I want to donate my light sprite to this raffle that’s going on”, the dom team might say “that’s a profit push raffle and we’re halfway through the week. It would be silly to accept a light sprite for that. Also we’re not going to dump that on the person running the raffle who was expecting normal traffic because they’ll be overwhelmed. Can we use this sprite next time we battle instead?”.
Did this happen? No clue. But that would be my read on a plausible take of the situation.
(frozen comment) Re: Elisabluh
(Anonymous) 2024-10-15 07:00 pm (UTC)(link)In general, I don't really feel like there's a reason to believe she's just straight up lying about her history with light sprites. you may argue that there's no concrete proof she hasn't been intentionally buying up the sprites just to inflate them as a massive middle finger to the community; but there's also not really any proof against it that I've seen? Do we actually know for sure, with proper evidence, that she's done this?? Or have people just observed her activity on the sprites market and jumped to conclusions because this just so happens to be about a very desirable retired item.
Bragging about owning light sprites or just being an ass towards the community isn't proof that she's been attempting to rule the lightsprites market with an iron fist. I don't think it's a crazy wild concept that someone would want to own many copies of one item, even if it's an expensive one, because they like it so much; look at WarriorJames. I myself didn't go broke over buying a dozen tricktrouper crowns (my favourite y1 item) some years back as an investment, but I'd be lying if I said I haven't been considering reselling them for profit now that talk of retiring y1 stuff keeps coming up again and again.
Basically. I have been operating on the tentative belief so far that Elisabluh did purposefully market manipulate the light sprites at least to some extent because everyone's seemed so convinced of that, but if anyone got concrete proof of that I'd like to see it. Or at least point me to some older arr threads where I might find something
(frozen comment) Re: Elisabluh
(Anonymous) 2024-10-15 08:33 pm (UTC)(link)https://anonrerising.dreamwidth.org/6960.html?thread=8072240#cmt8072240 (link to the post with links) which isn't outright proof but inserting herself into conversations about it to stoke people up does seem to be a pattern of behavior.
She's sold at least six (that she's posted about on the light sprite game database page anyway) but obviously that's not confirmation of anything either. It is interesting to see it suddenly shoot upwards in the game database comments, but again that isn't proof that it's her doing even if it is suspicious that all of the suddenly-high priced ones selling are hers.
Imgur in case she deletes the database comments: https://imgur.com/a/Hk1jvKq
(frozen comment) Re: Elisabluh
(Anonymous) 2024-10-15 11:54 pm (UTC)(link)oh yeah to clarify I'm talking mainly in reference to Elisabluh's recent post on tumblr explaining the situation (there is an imgur album here in the thread of it already somewhere so I'll just post the link to it https://www.tumblr.com/ebluh/764346610997133312)
it's here that she confirms she is the one who has been selling the sprites that she's noted down on the database, and she says three things. 1. she collected the sprites because she liked them a lot; 2. started selling them because she doesn't want to get fucked over in case they are unretired; 3. she set higher prices than what the sprites were typically going for because she values the sprites highly and wanted to take that chance. I get that not everyone would want to believe this but personally that sounds reasonable enough to me, with how I feel similarly about my own y1 collection.
she also says that when she started listing the sprites for higher-than-normal prices, all the lower ones disappeared but not because of her, but people assumed that she did it because her listings ended up being the only ones there. I don't know if there's any way to actually find the truth here but it's not unreasonable to think that the cheaper listings just expired and the sellers were hesitant to relist when they saw her price hike, or the listings got bought by someone else when they saw it alongside the higher listings. A 50kg light sprite can easily look like a steal next to a 100kg light sprite to someone who wants it but hasn't been closely studying its price history.
thing is, you can still absolutely be unhappy with Elisabluh's decision to list her sprites for much higher than what they were going for, even if the intent wasn't to hike the prices. It still had that effect, because of how scarce and sought after the sprite is. With how many people want it, it's understandable to feel frustrated at the rapid increase. But painting her as malicious and trying to find reasons why she's terrible and should be banned feels like such an awful overreaction to what, in the end, is a pixel item.
but like I said, if there is any actual concrete unbiased proof that she did indeed maliciously buy up the cheaper sprites and relist them with the sole purpose of artificially increasing its value, I will look at it.
(frozen comment) Re: Elisabluh
(Anonymous) 2024-10-16 02:52 pm (UTC)(link)has elisabluh been at times needlessly smug about having a light sprite collection? yeah, at least imo. but i find this kind of very human (in the fully flawed sense of "human") explanation to be much easier to believe than one of mustache-twirling light sprite supervillainy.
(frozen comment) Re: Elisabluh
(Anonymous) 2024-10-16 02:57 pm (UTC)(link)I know this thread is kinda losing steam now but before that happens I wanted to add anyway that regardless of whether or not you think she's terrible for price hiking light sprites, they did sell. Enough people were willing to shell out the gems despite the price tag and that just goes to show that the light sprite is so scarce and so desired that people WILL pay those increased prices. It wasn't a one-off, it happened with all the sprites she listed. Sure, some of these may have been panic buys. But that doesn't change the fact that they happened. They wouldn't have happened if people felt there was enough of a guarantee that the prices would go down again.
I get that the idea of an item of such rarity staying at a stable, slowly-increasing price that you can reasonably catch up to is comforting and any deviation from that feels like an anomaly, but I genuinely don't think it's wise to expect that anymore from the light sprite. The userbase is growing rapidly, and the amount of light sprites reliably available on the market is going down. Its status as the fabled first and rarest sprite isn't helping it; many want it more than the other sprites because of that mythical status. Maybe at some point many years ago it was fair to expect that its price would be slow-increasing like that of other more abundant retired items, but now that feels a bit like wishful thinking.
This is the light sprite. Not enough people have them for sale to keep the price stable anymore. Someone decides they wanna sell their sprite for much higher than what it sold for previously? Yeah as far as the userbase is concerned, that's the lowest it'll ever be again, because it's not like several other sellers are just gonna come out of the woodwork every time and start undercutting. Those sellers don't exist. It's easy to think that this did happen and that Elisabluh just bought those listings to relist them but that just sounds like copium if I'm honest. This is the nature of an item that has become so incredibly scarce and coveted.
(frozen comment) Re: Elisabluh
(Anonymous) 2024-10-16 05:18 pm (UTC)(link)(frozen comment) Re: Elisabluh
(Anonymous) 2024-10-16 05:42 pm (UTC)(link)flaw how? so KS items are less popular than the light sprite, how is that a flaw? I even made a point about how the light sprite specifically has achieved a kind of fabled, mythical status that in many people's eyes elevates it even above some kickstarter items by the looks of it. It looks better than most kickstarter items as well in my opinion, I know I'd take it any day over all four of the KS familiars. It's a cute little golden fairy and the glowy golden light aesthetic is like #1 in the list of popular aesthetics. Having a full sprite set seems to be of larger interest among collectors than having a full KS item set. I can imagine most collectors have resigned themselves to the mindset that KS items are just not worth it. But majority of the sprites are still reasonably obtainable and the human desire to complete your set is pretty natural.
Also, when it comes to kickstarter item sales, they tend to be more researched, especially for the more popular ones (bone fiend, skycat, gilded crown). People are more likely to turn to the forums to buy/sell them because it's considered a big deal, and look into the sale history more thoroughly before buying/selling. And I mean, as of typing this, the only KS item on the AH right now is a cranial hornhelm which is up there for 2x the amount that, according to the database, it has sold for previously so it's not like AH sellers aren't trying to get more out of KS stuff as well.
(frozen comment) Re: Elisabluh
(Anonymous) 2024-10-16 07:03 pm (UTC)(link)what you explained is totally reasonable but combined with her recently comments and how she's behaved for the past multiple years on this topic, i have a really hard time giving her that much charitability.
the reason why i doubt that the price increase was natural because the lower ones simply expired is this:
1. although light sprites are not huge in number, people who are selling are generally aware of what the price ranges have been. it was also pretty common knowledge that light sprites were typically 60kg-70kg
2. people are clearly not actively buying at the current price. showcased in the recent FRD thread by multiple people specifically stating they refuse to buy light sprites at the current price. people like 888 who very obviously would be able to easily pay the current price. also with elisabluh's tumblr post showing someone trying to actively haggle down her price to 135kg and being rejected
3. what happens when no one is buying at a price? it naturally goes down as people adjust trying to find sellers
i strongly think that elisabluh (and possibly others) bought out the cheaper listings to enforce this new price. it just doesn't make sense otherwise why the price hasn't fallen by any noticable amount when it's clear the buying market are unhappy with the current price, are trying to unsuccessfully haggle or are outright refusing to purchase until the price falls.
(frozen comment) Re: Elisabluh
(Anonymous) 2024-10-16 07:39 pm (UTC)(link)but you can still find posts of other people indirectly (because callouts are against the rules) mentioning their multiple overpriced light sprites and also the shitty attitude they've always had about selling them at the then current market price.
for example they used to have in their bio that you basically had to humiliate yourself if you even wanted to attempt to make an offer on their sprites.
nevermind that they definitely were pulling the "list at 90/100k the minute all the other listings expire" in order to trick people into paying those prices. it's like the people who vastly overprice certain pieces of low-stocked apparel or genes on the AH to take advantage of players that don't know any better but ramped up to 11.
(frozen comment) Re: Elisabluh
(Anonymous) 2024-10-16 09:03 pm (UTC)(link)I did already address most of this in the other post I just made. As for that last paragraph, I wish it was easier to prove that because it once again just sounds very bad faith. I'm not saying it's impossible to do that sort of thing, and maybe she really did, to try and have a better chance of selling her sprites for higher. But she's not like, bound to other listings and their timers? If the previous listings expired and their owners didn't relist, how's that her fault? They could have relisted, and made her higher listing look really overpriced in comparison. But because they didn't, I take it people got the idea that she must have bought them. I guess if there ever was any instances of her admitting to doing that on the forums, it would be gone now? But this doesn't really seem like anything she'd want to admit to in public in the first place.
(frozen comment) Re: Elisabluh
(Anonymous) 2024-10-16 08:52 pm (UTC)(link)I want to note that at this point, saying that the sprites are still worth 60-70kg feels like wishful thinking. It's a reference point everyone clings to because they just don't want to believe that the price hike isn't some anomaly that needs fixing. If it really was supposed to be 60-70kg then it would be. Even with Elisabluh having a small collection of them and listing them for higher, they would be. But they're not, not solely because of her listings, but because there also aren't enough other light sprite sellers to reliably bring the price back down. To assume that Elisabluh or some other rich player is the one preventing that from happening by snapping up every lower price listing before others even have a chance to see it sounds like, well, copium like I said.
And from what I understand, it really is all just bad faith conclusions. She has/had multiple sprites? she must be hoarding them for profit. She is listing them for way too much? she must be trying to price hike them. She is acting annoying about it on the forums and offsite? futher proof that she is just doing this to fuck with the light sprites audience. She doesn't support unretiring the sprites? that's because she doesn't want her evil light sprites empire to topple!
Elisabluh said however that she collected light sprites because she liked them (again look at WarriorJames, this wouldn't even be an isolated case), but because of the potential future where the sprites get unretired she decided to sell her collection, which makes perfect sense to me and I already explained why. Also; listing a light sprite for a super high price while agreeing that it probably isn't actually worth that much are two things that can coexist. She said that she didn't want to settle on LAH for her light sprites because she wouldn't even have sold them if the threat of the sprites being re-released wasn't potentially on the horizon.
People saying they won't buy at that price is well and good, but doesn't change anything. Wishing to stick to a price even though most of your potential buyers won't bite isn't proof of malice. Stubbornness? Sure. But that's her choice. People can go on the forums. They can make offers. If they're able to catch a seller willing to sell for 60-70kg, then that's great! If they aren't... I guess that's the moment where they start pointing fingers at Elisabluh because the community tells them to, instead of accepting that this item is just not that readily available anymore without needing to blame any one person? Like, if you refuse to buy at Elisabluh's prices, but you can't find anyone selling for a lower price, your immediate conclusion is that this one single person must own a significant enough chunk of light sprites to ensure that the price remains like 2-3x of 60kg? Really? That makes more sense to you?
Imo people like 888 act just as annoying, with how antagonistic they're being. 888 is someone many look up to and see as a role model as well, so it's not like he's helping people keep rational about it. Once again I'm not saying it's unreasonable to be frustrated about the price of the light sprite or to think that Elisabluh is annoying and toxic but I still stand by my point: she does not deserve to be condemned or banned over this, and this talk about her intentionally keeping the sprites and their prices in a stranglehold seems highly unfounded on anything other than bitterness.
(frozen comment) Re: Elisabluh
(Anonymous) 2024-10-16 09:25 pm (UTC)(link)i never said that i think light sprites should *still* be 60kg-70kg however i was referencing that because at the time when they started to very drastically jump in price, that was the standard value at the time. of course they would normally be worth more now, but it's completely ridiculous to think that they should be anywhere near 180kg-200kg which is more expensive then some sought after KS items.
idk why you jumped on that so hard. i mostly brought it up because you seemed to think that the price only jumped 2 years ago because all the cheaper listings expired. that's not the case at all... someone listing their sprite for higher than normal would not cascade into the price being as high as it is now. imo there are clearly more factors at play here and i do believe it involves elisabluh and other players purchasing cheaper sprites to keep the price high.
elisabluh is just getting the brunt because honestly, she's being obnoxious and a dick about it for no reason. it's not even someone lashing out because people are speculating about them, it's going out of her way to light the flames back up when no one had been talking about it. and this has been going on for *years* at this point. like the other anon said, sadly a lot is probably not archived or no longer exists, but i have some clear memories of them being even more insufferable back when DRR was more active and the topic was brought up there.
no clue why you went on this rant about how 888 is a "role model" and should be above... what exactly? expressing their opinion and calling out someone who is actively *lying*?? get off it. what they posted was perfectly reasonable and was echoed by a lot of other players who i'm sure can think for themselves and are not influenced by this so called "role model"
(frozen comment) Re: Elisabluh
(Anonymous) 2024-10-16 09:34 pm (UTC)(link)i also wanted to mention that elisabluh is *actively* making it so that MORE people know that it's HER people are talking about when they say "SOMEONE caused the market to skyrocket".
the only way you know that it's referencing elisabluh is if you read drama blogs, and i think people drastically overestimate how many FR players either read or are even aware of places like ARR or SMR.
think of how many people on "normal" FRD-goers (normal is bad word but i just mean ppl unaware of drama) now know that people are talking about her because of how she's been acting this past week lol all of those people who now know it's HER instead of idk, ignoring it? reporting the topic and moving along? if she's so certain she's done nothing wrong it really makes it hard to believe when she keeps letting more people know this is about her and how she totally never did anything oh btw no one is actually buying at 120kg+ pls ignore the tumblr post that i made where someone offered me 135kg for mine lololol
(frozen comment) Re: Elisabluh
(Anonymous) 2024-10-16 11:33 pm (UTC)(link)oh no I don't think you specifically are clinging to 60-70kg but it does look like much of the crowd that's currently mad about it thinks that since that's the price they remember it being before the rapid increase, it should still be in that specific range because the hike was artificial and it's all this one user's fault. Idk if I'd describe my attempt to be thorough about my observations as jumping on it, but I do see it mentioned time and time again as if it's some sacred light sprite price range and everything above it is too high.
and well I suppose it'll remain a situation where depending on how you interpret the details and facts we do have, you have to draw your own conclusions because there isn't concrete proof for what she's done exactly and why. We know she's sold several light sprites for high prices. We know that other, lower-priced listings have gone MIA. We know that she acts like an ass about it all. But I myself would rather not accuse her of hoarding and price manipulation without proof, as tempting as it may be.
And yeah, being an ass about it doesn't help her, though I still am disappointed in the community for also continuously bringing it up on the forums and engaging with her. It doesn't really help, even if initially no names are named. it usually ends up with people commenting with their distaste and desire to have the responsible user banned well before Elisabluh herself shows up. it's not really anyone's business to be talking and speculating about the actions of one user on the forums, because that user is still a real person playing the game.
as for 888, I didn't intend for it to be a rant as much as it was an expression of mild disappointment, rather. in that archive he's calling her out on something that really honestly doesn't matter? like ok she failed to mention a 145kg sale of a light sprite because she was too lazy to do her research... ok? what a terrible lie to tell. As for the 135kg offer that she didn't take, sure she could have included it as a reference but the fact that she didn't because it never became an official sale isn't like, egregious or anything. She turned it down, so there's no knowing if that sale would have actually gone through for 135kg if she'd accepted; the person offering could have tried to haggle more, or offer partial in items, or changed their mind etc.
I'm also not saying 888 is obligated to act like a role model, but being popular usually comes with that neat little bonus where people will think he's correct about everything just because he's, well, popular. I'm sure players can think for themselves but it's not hard to see them siding with 888 over Elisabluh in the midst of everything. The callout just comes off as an attempt to get a one-up over her for the sake of it, instead of being a helpful heads-up.
(frozen comment) Re: Elisabluh
(Anonymous) 2024-10-16 11:39 pm (UTC)(link)just as I post this, it seems like another lightsprite prices thread has been made. I wonder how this one will go. it doesn't have many posts and may or may not gain traction so I'm not sure if it's worth archiving yet but, here: https://www1.flightrising.com/forums/frd/3370756
(frozen comment) Re: Elisabluh
(Anonymous) 2024-10-17 01:55 am (UTC)(link)soo Elisabluh has not posted I this thread and the conversation is going exactly how I predicted it would. https://imgur.com/a/XI8Fj3N
It's baffling enough when people just believe when they're told this, let alone the fact that it's spoken about like some kind of playground rumour. Regardless of if it's actually true or not, no one even questions it? I really don't blame Elisabluh for being uncomfortable with these kinds of exchanges and wanting to say something about it
(frozen comment) Re: Elisabluh
(Anonymous) 2024-10-17 02:03 am (UTC)(link)If they're not responsible for the state of the Light Sprite market, why do they even need to go post on those threads anyway? What's that saying... a hit dog will holler?
(frozen comment) Re: Elisabluh
(Anonymous) 2024-10-17 02:15 am (UTC)(link)yeah that's true but my point is that the way people bring it up so eagerly and then everyone just believes them is very uncomfortable to observe even for me, even though I'm not the one being talked about. I don't think this kind of gossiping should be done so freely on the site itself. They're still taking about a real person who is also on the site /with them/ and openly stating shit like "wow that's so scummy, FR users are normally nice but this user isn't, sad face :("
Like they can hold that opinion, fine, but talking about it openly like that is so weird, especially since someone just dropped in and said it like it's hard facts without backing it up and they just got believed. By everyone. Like oh my god?
(frozen comment) Re: Elisabluh
(Anonymous) 2024-10-17 02:24 am (UTC)(link)(frozen comment) Re: Elisabluh
(Anonymous) 2024-10-16 11:44 pm (UTC)(link)i think you're missing the point regarding her being called out on a lie. she came to a thread about people asking hey why are light sprites so expensive, and countered by saying "well acksually" they are not going for over 120kg
despite *knowing* that they do, and *knowing* that she's trying to sell one for 200kg and *knowing* that someone just offered her 135kg for hers. it's a deliberate gaslight IMO to try and convince people that things aren't actually that bad (when they are). it's the small things like this that add up to the bigger conclusions that people are speculating and believe.
it's such a weird thing to lie about. when she has absolutely sold them for that price and higher.
idk what to tell you though, people are definitely allowed to complain about these things and yeah it probably does suck when people call you out on your bullshit. she's an asshole and she absolutely deserves all the negative attention she's getting, whether or not some of those negative opinions are warranted or even correct. she is causing this problem two fold by even involving herself with this mess to begin with, and continuing to be antagonistic and a shitty person overall.
there is a reason that people specifically bring up this topic, and often times it's truly by people who have no idea what's going on, maybe they came back to FR and noticed that the price jumped to such an extreme amount and want to know. there really aren't other items that have gone through this kind of behavior, so i think it's normal that people ask questions?
you don't have to accuse her of things you don't agree with, but there are enough people who are familiar with her actions, behaviors and she's doing herself no favors with her actions. people are always going to speculate and it's only gotten this far because of *her* actions.
(frozen comment) Re: Elisabluh
(Anonymous) 2024-10-17 12:00 am (UTC)(link)(frozen comment) Re: Elisabluh
(Anonymous) 2024-10-17 12:05 am (UTC)(link)fair enough. whether or not that's an intentional attempt to gaslight or a lazy blunder on her part, the 120kg vs 135kg vs 145kg thing just doesn't feel that impactful to me. like you said, it's a weird thing to lie about and I'm not sure what she would have been trying to achieve by intentionally lying about this when her own current public listing price is 200kg. that's easier to find than recent confirmed sales. as far as I'm concerned, 120kg is expensive enough, and 15-25kg above that doesn't make a massive difference anymore.
and yeah people are allowed to complain, that's what salt spaces are for; but in that thread I linked, only the third post down is already spreading the rumour again and it's just uncomfortable to read: https://i.imgur.com/UFDCAfK.png
I guess I just wish this was, at the very least, kept to salt spaces. I do hope Elisabluh doesn't respond to this one and that the thread just dies down, but people still shouldn't just get to vague about other users like this on the forum itself.