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Welp:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1108452142118871051/1108457898729820180/image.png
gravna: I am no longer offering commissions on flight rising. I have submitted a request for this thread to be deleted. thank you to all that showed interest.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1108452142118871051/1108457898729820180/image.png
gravna: I am no longer offering commissions on flight rising. I have submitted a request for this thread to be deleted. thank you to all that showed interest.
Looks like one other person joined the thread:
Dakkokki:
Can you post the evidence of tracing? Like, not just a link to the DA page but the images you were given? Because I can't seem to find the traced poses
Dakkokki:
Can you post the evidence of tracing? Like, not just a link to the DA page but the images you were given? Because I can't seem to find the traced poses
I don't blame them. At all. Especially as the commissioner has now taken it to multiple sites including ones Gravna isn't even a member of... (Which, can someone correct me if I'm wrong but, isn't Toyhouse a site that takes codes to register at? Meaning if a user wanted to give their side, they can't, while people can dogpile said user.)
The account that it was posted on was made just to harass a user with that name. Also, it now has said user's Instagram account in the post. Cross site social media like this feels like we're creeping towards "I'd doxx the user if I could."
I'd say this feels more like a clear warning to never take a commission from the accuser at this point.
I'd say this feels more like a clear warning to never take a commission from the accuser at this point.
Yeah this is harassment at this point. I don't blame the artist for shutting down their FR commissions, this is crazy over a small miscommunication
Dakkokki here, I am not defending either person, I'm just curious about which ones were traced and I don't want to go through thousands of pose pictures lmao
Yep, the warning I took from this is to never do business with Shamirr.
Drakendinn joined the tracing discourse on the TH thread.
Drakendinn: Gravna did not tell me this was a traced pose, unfortunately. So, yeah, that's something to keep in mind if they do start offering comms again.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1007343970956869735/1108794501197213859/Screenshot_20230519-003238_Chrome.jpg
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1007343970956869735/1108794511146111076/Screenshot_20230519-003126_Chrome.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/CxSibSt.png
I'm not sure why Drakendinn is upset about not being told that Gravna used a creative commons photo with "no credit needed" listed in the rules as a guide underneath one of the commission drawings? This also isn't like tracing a meme pose, where the lines drawing have already been figured out by the original artist and by drawing on top of the meme you're literally tracing the work of the original drawing. Pose meme artists also usually ask for credit for their work, so maybe Drakendinn and Shamirr think that every pose reference that exists on the internet works just like that?
Drawing on top of creative commons photos is extremely standard practice, and the rules explicitly laid out in the stock photo account say that "no credit is needed" for this type of thing. Legally it's the same as if Gravna took a picture of themselves, drew on top of it, and didn't tell Drakendinn that they'd used that for reference.
Drakendinn: Gravna did not tell me this was a traced pose, unfortunately. So, yeah, that's something to keep in mind if they do start offering comms again.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1007343970956869735/1108794501197213859/Screenshot_20230519-003238_Chrome.jpg
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1007343970956869735/1108794511146111076/Screenshot_20230519-003126_Chrome.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/CxSibSt.png
I'm not sure why Drakendinn is upset about not being told that Gravna used a creative commons photo with "no credit needed" listed in the rules as a guide underneath one of the commission drawings? This also isn't like tracing a meme pose, where the lines drawing have already been figured out by the original artist and by drawing on top of the meme you're literally tracing the work of the original drawing. Pose meme artists also usually ask for credit for their work, so maybe Drakendinn and Shamirr think that every pose reference that exists on the internet works just like that?
Drawing on top of creative commons photos is extremely standard practice, and the rules explicitly laid out in the stock photo account say that "no credit is needed" for this type of thing. Legally it's the same as if Gravna took a picture of themselves, drew on top of it, and didn't tell Drakendinn that they'd used that for reference.
Fun fact: You can't just sign up on Toyhou.se, you need a code!
They used a code just for that?
This is a recurring thing in Art Discourse and its really annoying
its like people just internalize the simple ''trace bad!" standard and don't apply any thought to context or actual practice
its like people just internalize the simple ''trace bad!" standard and don't apply any thought to context or actual practice
nayrt
i would be upset if an artist traced closely (keyword: closely) over a freely available pose photo for a picture of my OC because i want something that's unique and isn't recognizably traced. that said, there's a lot of nuance. if you're a photorealistic artist and you trace over a photo because you intend to copy it, that's different from someone getting the broad strokes of a pose and changing up details.
i would be upset if an artist traced closely (keyword: closely) over a freely available pose photo for a picture of my OC because i want something that's unique and isn't recognizably traced. that said, there's a lot of nuance. if you're a photorealistic artist and you trace over a photo because you intend to copy it, that's different from someone getting the broad strokes of a pose and changing up details.
(frozen comment) I fucked Aequorin at the 2010 Puyallup State Fair and I'm tired of keeping it a secret
(Anonymous) 2023-05-19 02:30 am (UTC)(link)After seeing everything that's happened here, it's absolutely unbelievable that we have gotten no new updates. Thus, I am going to light the fire again by including mine. For privacy's sake, I will not say who I am, but just that I love you. My heart breaks that I cannot be with you. I was a Kickstarter backer of Flight Rising and only picked it up again recently and have been reading this blog like my daily newspaper. I know you won't remember me, but one day we can reconcile.
(frozen comment) Re: I fucked Aequorin at the 2010 Puyallup State Fair and I'm tired of keeping it a secret
(Anonymous) 2023-05-19 02:33 am (UTC)(link)What???
Exactly this.
I'm in a server full of artists (99% of which are well over 25, yes this is important, because the whole "using references is BAD" is an opinion I'm seeing more and more by younger folks)
It's a common opinion that using references- even cobbling them together to help with a pose that is giving the artist issues- and loosely building sketches over them, is a helpful practice. Many of us actually take photos of our hands in various poses and exchange them as references (because hand references are a PAIN.)
These references are provided for this kind of thing, and it's not like they were tracing over artwork- which is literally theft.
I'm in a server full of artists (99% of which are well over 25, yes this is important, because the whole "using references is BAD" is an opinion I'm seeing more and more by younger folks)
It's a common opinion that using references- even cobbling them together to help with a pose that is giving the artist issues- and loosely building sketches over them, is a helpful practice. Many of us actually take photos of our hands in various poses and exchange them as references (because hand references are a PAIN.)
These references are provided for this kind of thing, and it's not like they were tracing over artwork- which is literally theft.
+1
this is blockworthy for me. i've been wanting to start offering commissions on FR, and i don't want to risk forgetting their username or not recognizing them in the event of a username change.
this is blockworthy for me. i've been wanting to start offering commissions on FR, and i don't want to risk forgetting their username or not recognizing them in the event of a username change.
MULTIPLE sites?? jfc
This is some hardcore petty bullshit.
-1
this is literally what those things exist for
these photos are exactly the same as a free posing program, just created by someone else
this is literally what those things exist for
these photos are exactly the same as a free posing program, just created by someone else
I mean people can be upset about whatever they want I simply thing the artist did nothing morally wrong in this case.
(frozen comment) Re: I fucked Aequorin at the 2010 Puyallup State Fair and I'm tired of keeping it a secret
(Anonymous) 2023-05-19 06:56 am (UTC)(link)Aequorin will surely notice you if you decide to sell your imp scrolls anon.
i agree, though if the artist did anything wrong, it was the fact they didn't seek alternate communication in some method before going forward with the commission. even a profile message saying "hey, i sent you a PM about your commission!" could have gone a long way, or pinging on the forum thread where they first started talking.
everything else, though, wasn't their fault and i hope that they can recover through this. despite their mistake, they did try to resolve it by offering fixes. 60$ for a reference sheet they were offering is super cheap, and they don't deserve the stress that comes with this whole situation.
everything else, though, wasn't their fault and i hope that they can recover through this. despite their mistake, they did try to resolve it by offering fixes. 60$ for a reference sheet they were offering is super cheap, and they don't deserve the stress that comes with this whole situation.
(frozen comment) Re: I fucked Aequorin at the 2010 Puyallup State Fair and I'm tired of keeping it a secret
(Anonymous) 2023-05-19 12:02 pm (UTC)(link)LOL it would sound outrageous but I honestly believe you.
I once met and spent some time with another KS backer at Godzilla-con. We just hit it off, met up IRL, and things got a bit far. Haven't seen them since and we keep in contact infrequently.
I once met and spent some time with another KS backer at Godzilla-con. We just hit it off, met up IRL, and things got a bit far. Haven't seen them since and we keep in contact infrequently.
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