mindlessflight (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
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anonrerising2024-10-08 11:48 am
mindlessflight) wrote in anonrerising2024-10-08 11:48 am
even if you use generative ai for "shitposts," you're still contributing to training an ai generator.
no ai model can be built without utilizing an inventory of pre-existing work. it doesn't matter if you say your shitty songs will never be art as a disclaimer, it's still theft.
no ai model can be built without utilizing an inventory of pre-existing work. it doesn't matter if you say your shitty songs will never be art as a disclaimer, it's still theft.
Okay, and therefore I won’t use it again. 🫡
how do you always know when someone posts about you here lmao
I dunno about the "art thief" thing if anyone wants to inform me on that I'll hear it
But agree with Dak ITT that AI isn't big bad evil. Oh no he made a parody song he's not posting to the general public anywhere, isn't using for profit, isn't pretending it's not AI, and couldn't easily commission on his own from a real human! Gar!
I get not going to AI for drawn art more so because finding someone for that is easily accessible and frankly cheap, but where do you even find a /country/ song commissioner, especially with a voice he'd like, etc?
Also re: non-approved scraped materials... honestly could not make me care. How many people here used the Baldwin/Swipp extension before FR made their own, or any of the other FR scraper programs? How many people here ever used 123movies or looked up "[BOOK] free online pdf"? CGPT has used its scraped mats to explain lessons to me in ways my professors never could, AITA because I didn't buy a couple $60 textbooks on the same subject by different authors to help me understand the concept instead, or find and pay $30/hr for a tutor? I really doubt anyone here is innocent from ever pirating someone's art, whether a movie, book, or something else.
BTW idk how relevant it is or if people in the art community already know this, but pirating actually increases profit to creators: www.muso.com/magazine/unlocking-the-value-of-the-piracy-audience?hs_amp=true
Basically the logic behind it is that due to lack of availability/being broke, a good chunk of people who pirate were never going to make the leap to try XYZ media piece out anyway, but after pirating they're more likely to actually become fans and then buy the real thing. Obvi AI scraping =/= piracy, but they're similar, and I imagine someone really into art that uses AI, when their program won't execute the task they're requesting, would similarly rather pay to make it happen since they're already hooked rather than giving up on seeing the art made. That may sound bogus, but that's exactly what happens with tv/book series when people pirate them.
I know this is going to be a controversial take on the scaly-furry art game drama board, but plz remember my take isn't "fuck the starving artists", it's "you guys have stolen(=pirated) art(=books movies shows etc) or used scraped programs too" + "he couldn't readily find a human to do this anyway(I believe)" + "piracy leads to increased profits for creators anyway".
Also I am not part of the Tumblr scaly-furry art community, so if all the points I'm making have already been hashed over a million times by now then sorry 😮
But agree with Dak ITT that AI isn't big bad evil. Oh no he made a parody song he's not posting to the general public anywhere, isn't using for profit, isn't pretending it's not AI, and couldn't easily commission on his own from a real human! Gar!
I get not going to AI for drawn art more so because finding someone for that is easily accessible and frankly cheap, but where do you even find a /country/ song commissioner, especially with a voice he'd like, etc?
Also re: non-approved scraped materials... honestly could not make me care. How many people here used the Baldwin/Swipp extension before FR made their own, or any of the other FR scraper programs? How many people here ever used 123movies or looked up "[BOOK] free online pdf"? CGPT has used its scraped mats to explain lessons to me in ways my professors never could, AITA because I didn't buy a couple $60 textbooks on the same subject by different authors to help me understand the concept instead, or find and pay $30/hr for a tutor? I really doubt anyone here is innocent from ever pirating someone's art, whether a movie, book, or something else.
BTW idk how relevant it is or if people in the art community already know this, but pirating actually increases profit to creators: www.muso.com/magazine/unlocking-the-value-of-the-piracy-audience?hs_amp=true
Basically the logic behind it is that due to lack of availability/being broke, a good chunk of people who pirate were never going to make the leap to try XYZ media piece out anyway, but after pirating they're more likely to actually become fans and then buy the real thing. Obvi AI scraping =/= piracy, but they're similar, and I imagine someone really into art that uses AI, when their program won't execute the task they're requesting, would similarly rather pay to make it happen since they're already hooked rather than giving up on seeing the art made. That may sound bogus, but that's exactly what happens with tv/book series when people pirate them.
I know this is going to be a controversial take on the scaly-furry art game drama board, but plz remember my take isn't "fuck the starving artists", it's "you guys have stolen(=pirated) art(=books movies shows etc) or used scraped programs too" + "he couldn't readily find a human to do this anyway(I believe)" + "piracy leads to increased profits for creators anyway".
Also I am not part of the Tumblr scaly-furry art community, so if all the points I'm making have already been hashed over a million times by now then sorry 😮
Using an AI software, even if not posting publicly, is still contributing to teaching that AI things. Advancing the AI to stealing other people's art even more and is just another step towards hurting artists.
Could you say that's a stretch? Yes of course you can but in my opinion using AI for anything just causes more harm than good. I know it's just a funny haha shitpost but that's a slippery slope into much worse.
Idk why you bring up piracy here (I know you said you don't know if it's relevant, imo it's not) in a conversation about AI. Even if they steal art that's not piracy, that's just theft. Piracy is a type of theft but not all theft is piracy.
Could you say that's a stretch? Yes of course you can but in my opinion using AI for anything just causes more harm than good. I know it's just a funny haha shitpost but that's a slippery slope into much worse.
Idk why you bring up piracy here (I know you said you don't know if it's relevant, imo it's not) in a conversation about AI. Even if they steal art that's not piracy, that's just theft. Piracy is a type of theft but not all theft is piracy.
Some of the times I've tried talking in my flight's server I've been straight-up ignored and it's weird. It's not even like I'm a common user and maybe people are just sick of me, I hardly talk in there b/c when I do it falls flat. I hardly have any forum presence on FR itself too so I don't think anyone on there would even know me to not like me. Never been in any drama. Sometimes I'll ask a question and it's not even anything weird and nobody will answer and then people only start talking after the next person says something. IDK. Has this happened to anyone else, or is this just a me-thing and I must be the problem and just don't see it?
As a whole because I have noticed when I tried to participate in threads I am often ignored as well
It’s honestly super disheartening. I’ve also noticed that people disagree or argue a lot more than usual.
It’s honestly super disheartening. I’ve also noticed that people disagree or argue a lot more than usual.
I feel like there’s a difference between ‘stole a video game so I could play it’ and ‘stole art so I could train my robot to make new art based off it’.
People are already using AI to generate things like book covers and songs, thus taking jobs away from actual artists (all while using actual artists’ work to train those very tools that are taking jobs away from them). I just think until generative AI is better regulated it’s not ethical to use it - even jokingly or just for fun.
People are already using AI to generate things like book covers and songs, thus taking jobs away from actual artists (all while using actual artists’ work to train those very tools that are taking jobs away from them). I just think until generative AI is better regulated it’s not ethical to use it - even jokingly or just for fun.
Not all comments start a conversation. I’ve seen the same topic in FRD go nowhere one day and then three days later blow up. Sometimes it’s a timezone thing. Sometimes you just get a group of people who aren’t feeling up to chatting. Sometimes discord eats your ping.
It’s like fishing - sometimes you get a bite! And when you do that can turn into a fun conversation. But it takes patience and time to pull it off.
It’s like fishing - sometimes you get a bite! And when you do that can turn into a fun conversation. But it takes patience and time to pull it off.
Flaw in your arguement: Plenty of kickstarter items, which may be as rare or rarer considering the number on inactive and banned accounts, haven't gone up anywhere near as much as the lightsprite. In fact, I could get some Kickstarter items cheaper.
I don't really block a lot of people bc I mostly just lurk and dick around on site, but I have TheUltimateOwl blocked for petty reasons lol
A long time ago, I saw someone named Leivance or something like that vent about their job in the XYZ1 G1 Discord and TheUltimateOwl would always tell them to just quit their job. I always thought it was kind of weird bc like ?? what if that's their only source of income?
My friend also used to be part of the XYZ G1 Discord's mod team and saw TheUltimateOwl say something about Leivance's "past problematic behavior" and never listening to advice. That really irked me so I left the server little bit after. Later I saw that TheUltimateOwl was being overtly generous and friended Leivance's boyfriend. I found that really weird so I blocked them after that lol
A long time ago, I saw someone named Leivance or something like that vent about their job in the XYZ1 G1 Discord and TheUltimateOwl would always tell them to just quit their job. I always thought it was kind of weird bc like ?? what if that's their only source of income?
My friend also used to be part of the XYZ G1 Discord's mod team and saw TheUltimateOwl say something about Leivance's "past problematic behavior" and never listening to advice. That really irked me so I left the server little bit after. Later I saw that TheUltimateOwl was being overtly generous and friended Leivance's boyfriend. I found that really weird so I blocked them after that lol
honestly, while I generally will encourage not turning to AI for anything, I have a really hard time caring about someone's random privately-shared AI shitpost when my mom has recently been buying a copious amount of mundane decorative shit (like posters, kitchen/bath mats, curtains, bedsheets and the like) that has AI generated images on them without even knowing or noticing that they're AI generated. our house is filled with this shit now and she doesn't even understand wtf I'm talking about when I try to explain to her to be more observant when buying decor or why AI is bad.
I'll take someone who understands what AI is and uses it to make some non-profit shitpost over the real issue where this crap is just all over places like amazon now and people who don't know or understand it are paying real money for that garbage
I'll take someone who understands what AI is and uses it to make some non-profit shitpost over the real issue where this crap is just all over places like amazon now and people who don't know or understand it are paying real money for that garbage
not an endorsement of TheUltimateOwl's behavior in any way but it's weird to have people vent about their irl in a big public discord server for a game. like, what does this have to do with dragon neopets? do they not have friends to talk about this shit to or something?
also i'm fairly certain venting posts aren't even allowed on the site, so discord servers linked on site should be moderating against them.
also i'm fairly certain venting posts aren't even allowed on the site, so discord servers linked on site should be moderating against them.
ayrt
flaw how? so KS items are less popular than the light sprite, how is that a flaw? I even made a point about how the light sprite specifically has achieved a kind of fabled, mythical status that in many people's eyes elevates it even above some kickstarter items by the looks of it. It looks better than most kickstarter items as well in my opinion, I know I'd take it any day over all four of the KS familiars. It's a cute little golden fairy and the glowy golden light aesthetic is like #1 in the list of popular aesthetics. Having a full sprite set seems to be of larger interest among collectors than having a full KS item set. I can imagine most collectors have resigned themselves to the mindset that KS items are just not worth it. But majority of the sprites are still reasonably obtainable and the human desire to complete your set is pretty natural.
Also, when it comes to kickstarter item sales, they tend to be more researched, especially for the more popular ones (bone fiend, skycat, gilded crown). People are more likely to turn to the forums to buy/sell them because it's considered a big deal, and look into the sale history more thoroughly before buying/selling. And I mean, as of typing this, the only KS item on the AH right now is a cranial hornhelm which is up there for 2x the amount that, according to the database, it has sold for previously so it's not like AH sellers aren't trying to get more out of KS stuff as well.
flaw how? so KS items are less popular than the light sprite, how is that a flaw? I even made a point about how the light sprite specifically has achieved a kind of fabled, mythical status that in many people's eyes elevates it even above some kickstarter items by the looks of it. It looks better than most kickstarter items as well in my opinion, I know I'd take it any day over all four of the KS familiars. It's a cute little golden fairy and the glowy golden light aesthetic is like #1 in the list of popular aesthetics. Having a full sprite set seems to be of larger interest among collectors than having a full KS item set. I can imagine most collectors have resigned themselves to the mindset that KS items are just not worth it. But majority of the sprites are still reasonably obtainable and the human desire to complete your set is pretty natural.
Also, when it comes to kickstarter item sales, they tend to be more researched, especially for the more popular ones (bone fiend, skycat, gilded crown). People are more likely to turn to the forums to buy/sell them because it's considered a big deal, and look into the sale history more thoroughly before buying/selling. And I mean, as of typing this, the only KS item on the AH right now is a cranial hornhelm which is up there for 2x the amount that, according to the database, it has sold for previously so it's not like AH sellers aren't trying to get more out of KS stuff as well.
sry mods, meant it as a shitpost not a serious censor. just felt like saying the name would beetlejuice us and summon dak when none of us want to interact with the fucker if we can help it
+1
i was going to comment that i thought this was why, and you were totally right lmao. anytime someone dares to even utter his name once even about something inconsequential, he's always here to immediately respond so he can pull out the defenses
i was going to comment that i thought this was why, and you were totally right lmao. anytime someone dares to even utter his name once even about something inconsequential, he's always here to immediately respond so he can pull out the defenses
nayrt
im genuinely curious what the average time it takes for dakk to respond to a post about him here. it feels like ~15 minutes but i cba to go through all the old threads for more data
im genuinely curious what the average time it takes for dakk to respond to a post about him here. it feels like ~15 minutes but i cba to go through all the old threads for more data
Piracy increases sales because you're getting more exposure from audiences who otherwise would never see your art. I've seen big, famous artists on twitter reply "just pirate it lmao" when fans complained they couldn't afford to buy an album or whatever.
AI is not piracy. Even the people who train the network don't know what gets put in there.
And your example does sound bogus because it is lol.
AI is not piracy. Even the people who train the network don't know what gets put in there.
And your example does sound bogus because it is lol.
I kind of feel the same.
Someone using an AI tool to make their own self-admitted shit post for their own use, especially if it's not for any sort of profit making is a hell of a lot different than artists/writers/etc losing their jobs because they're being replaced by cheaper sub par programming because companies think they can make a quick buck by not having to pay actual artists/writers/etc nor is it the same as an individual trying to make a quick buck by flooding a market with low effort works; and it sure as hell is a LOT different than trying to spread misinformation and actively fool others. There's more nuance to the ai situation than just going "You're an asshole and a thief, you used AI". The initial theft is such a small part of why AI is not great.
They're not selling it, it's hidden in a private discord. I don't see it as any different then using one of those meme-template sites to make a shitty picture to share with your friends. I find it very difficult to care about this specific instance of AI use. It's not great but it's not especially heinous either. This is a nothingburger to me.
Someone using an AI tool to make their own self-admitted shit post for their own use, especially if it's not for any sort of profit making is a hell of a lot different than artists/writers/etc losing their jobs because they're being replaced by cheaper sub par programming because companies think they can make a quick buck by not having to pay actual artists/writers/etc nor is it the same as an individual trying to make a quick buck by flooding a market with low effort works; and it sure as hell is a LOT different than trying to spread misinformation and actively fool others. There's more nuance to the ai situation than just going "You're an asshole and a thief, you used AI". The initial theft is such a small part of why AI is not great.
They're not selling it, it's hidden in a private discord. I don't see it as any different then using one of those meme-template sites to make a shitty picture to share with your friends. I find it very difficult to care about this specific instance of AI use. It's not great but it's not especially heinous either. This is a nothingburger to me.
Lol it's okay. We're watching the threads and they'll get frozen if they start to get stupid.
Tbh you aren’t wrong. I’ve been wanting to commission someone to make music for my streams for a while but I’m looking for extremely specific stuff and don’t know where the hell I would find someone to make Bossa Nova music that’d fit a pirate, but would also be affordable for me.
That being said, no I didn’t use any AI to make music for my stream, I’m still using an older song I commissioned and some Limbus Company bgm. Also if anyone knows of someone that can make such a thing please link me to them.
pirating from a multi million dollar company is not the same as everyone's art regardless of success and permission being fed into a giant AI machine to be profited off of by multi million dollar companies (and others ofc)
really strange comparison. i don't think making random memes with AI is as horrible as other ways that AI can be used, but i do think it's still worth criticism. you're still promoting and contributing to the use of AI, which isn't great.
really strange comparison. i don't think making random memes with AI is as horrible as other ways that AI can be used, but i do think it's still worth criticism. you're still promoting and contributing to the use of AI, which isn't great.
my issue with all this is that she goes around acting like light sprites *aren't* actually selling for as much as she and everyone else is now selling from for: https://archive.is/qzOOg
what you explained is totally reasonable but combined with her recently comments and how she's behaved for the past multiple years on this topic, i have a really hard time giving her that much charitability.
the reason why i doubt that the price increase was natural because the lower ones simply expired is this:
1. although light sprites are not huge in number, people who are selling are generally aware of what the price ranges have been. it was also pretty common knowledge that light sprites were typically 60kg-70kg
2. people are clearly not actively buying at the current price. showcased in the recent FRD thread by multiple people specifically stating they refuse to buy light sprites at the current price. people like 888 who very obviously would be able to easily pay the current price. also with elisabluh's tumblr post showing someone trying to actively haggle down her price to 135kg and being rejected
3. what happens when no one is buying at a price? it naturally goes down as people adjust trying to find sellers
i strongly think that elisabluh (and possibly others) bought out the cheaper listings to enforce this new price. it just doesn't make sense otherwise why the price hasn't fallen by any noticable amount when it's clear the buying market are unhappy with the current price, are trying to unsuccessfully haggle or are outright refusing to purchase until the price falls.
what you explained is totally reasonable but combined with her recently comments and how she's behaved for the past multiple years on this topic, i have a really hard time giving her that much charitability.
the reason why i doubt that the price increase was natural because the lower ones simply expired is this:
1. although light sprites are not huge in number, people who are selling are generally aware of what the price ranges have been. it was also pretty common knowledge that light sprites were typically 60kg-70kg
2. people are clearly not actively buying at the current price. showcased in the recent FRD thread by multiple people specifically stating they refuse to buy light sprites at the current price. people like 888 who very obviously would be able to easily pay the current price. also with elisabluh's tumblr post showing someone trying to actively haggle down her price to 135kg and being rejected
3. what happens when no one is buying at a price? it naturally goes down as people adjust trying to find sellers
i strongly think that elisabluh (and possibly others) bought out the cheaper listings to enforce this new price. it just doesn't make sense otherwise why the price hasn't fallen by any noticable amount when it's clear the buying market are unhappy with the current price, are trying to unsuccessfully haggle or are outright refusing to purchase until the price falls.
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