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that's a fake lore clan, real lore clans will see you missed something (bonus: not even realize you missed something because there's so much that even they forget) and then jump at the opportunity to talk about their lore at extreme lengths with the energy of a kid who ate a whole hershey bar
source: me, who is always buzzing to talk about my lore
but srsly that's a jerk move, you can't expect someone to know every single little thing about your lore, but that's the best part!! because it's a gateway to TALK ABOUT IT! wtf is the point if you just tell someone "oh just go read it lol", lazy as hell, the least they could do is link you where the supposed thing was missed (if its actually there at all) instead of telling you to go on a scavenger hunt for it.
source: me, who is always buzzing to talk about my lore
but srsly that's a jerk move, you can't expect someone to know every single little thing about your lore, but that's the best part!! because it's a gateway to TALK ABOUT IT! wtf is the point if you just tell someone "oh just go read it lol", lazy as hell, the least they could do is link you where the supposed thing was missed (if its actually there at all) instead of telling you to go on a scavenger hunt for it.
AYRT
RIGHT LOL THATS WHAT I WAS THINKING !!!
Like I will take any opportunity to ramble about my lore especially if someone missed a small detail, because it's fun to me!
And people miss things!!! Its just like... a weird contingent of Lore People who are like this and I wish I could tell in advance whether someone was cool or not lol
RIGHT LOL THATS WHAT I WAS THINKING !!!
Like I will take any opportunity to ramble about my lore especially if someone missed a small detail, because it's fun to me!
And people miss things!!! Its just like... a weird contingent of Lore People who are like this and I wish I could tell in advance whether someone was cool or not lol
I've been here for like. Six years and plague is my flight, right
This is the most I've diehard ground currency in all that time
I really hope the rest of the fests this cycle have apparel THIS good.
This is the most I've diehard ground currency in all that time
I really hope the rest of the fests this cycle have apparel THIS good.
i understand, dude. hope you got some rest.
This is inspired by the recent MV drama, but I have seen this issue elsewhere, with regards to dominance.
The idea that a contest should be 'fair'. I honestly don't see how a contest where people have to adhere to a set of rules and put forth a certain amount of effort can be 'fair'.
With the MV thing, the staff apparently has a certain aesthetic they both like and want for official holiday items, which the skins are, and thus players that make the effort to figure that out, and make entries that conform to that aesthetic are naturally going to win more.
Wishing that the staff would expand the aesthetic doesn't come under the idea of the contest being 'fair' it just means that the player base has a different idea and wants different skins to win.
I have seen things tossed out about not allowing the same person to win the skin contests X times in a row (usually twice, but it has varied a bit), but how would that make it more 'fair'. If someone doesn't conform to the aesthetic, those skins are not going to win. Especially since we don't know why the staff didn't pick them in the first place. Sure it might mean one of the honorable mentions wins, but still no guarantee that it will be one the players of the site want to win. Especially since such a rule has the potential to make it so that few people want to enter less liked contests, especially if they are before one that many people like designing for. As it is now, players can enter skins for all contests without worrying about winning and ruining their chances to enter the contest they really wanted to enter.
I guess to me, most of the ideas people toss around to make these contests 'fair' are more about punishing winners and making it unfair, or at least much harder, for those winners to actually win or enter said contests.
The idea that a contest should be 'fair'. I honestly don't see how a contest where people have to adhere to a set of rules and put forth a certain amount of effort can be 'fair'.
With the MV thing, the staff apparently has a certain aesthetic they both like and want for official holiday items, which the skins are, and thus players that make the effort to figure that out, and make entries that conform to that aesthetic are naturally going to win more.
Wishing that the staff would expand the aesthetic doesn't come under the idea of the contest being 'fair' it just means that the player base has a different idea and wants different skins to win.
I have seen things tossed out about not allowing the same person to win the skin contests X times in a row (usually twice, but it has varied a bit), but how would that make it more 'fair'. If someone doesn't conform to the aesthetic, those skins are not going to win. Especially since we don't know why the staff didn't pick them in the first place. Sure it might mean one of the honorable mentions wins, but still no guarantee that it will be one the players of the site want to win. Especially since such a rule has the potential to make it so that few people want to enter less liked contests, especially if they are before one that many people like designing for. As it is now, players can enter skins for all contests without worrying about winning and ruining their chances to enter the contest they really wanted to enter.
I guess to me, most of the ideas people toss around to make these contests 'fair' are more about punishing winners and making it unfair, or at least much harder, for those winners to actually win or enter said contests.
DA
I would love to add to this, that common suggestion is 'community vote'.
I'm not sure how many people would participate in voting - looking through pages of submissions, trying to eliminate ones that aren't properly sized/shadowed/layered, that don't reference anything, taking breeds/poses in consideration etc. seems like too much effort for a casual FR user. So likely, a small amount of players would hold power over it, and we're back at the start, just with those users picking their favs over the staff.
I'm probably just one of many that would vote joke or 'bad' skin to win because some are fun, even if I know they'd be better as UMAs and not take up fest slot. There would also probably be people that would just vote for same artist(s), thus making it possible to have same winners. And there is a chance richer artists would just buy votes somehow.
I would love to add to this, that common suggestion is 'community vote'.
I'm not sure how many people would participate in voting - looking through pages of submissions, trying to eliminate ones that aren't properly sized/shadowed/layered, that don't reference anything, taking breeds/poses in consideration etc. seems like too much effort for a casual FR user. So likely, a small amount of players would hold power over it, and we're back at the start, just with those users picking their favs over the staff.
I'm probably just one of many that would vote joke or 'bad' skin to win because some are fun, even if I know they'd be better as UMAs and not take up fest slot. There would also probably be people that would just vote for same artist(s), thus making it possible to have same winners. And there is a chance richer artists would just buy votes somehow.
what is the mv drama? sum and screencaps please
AYRT
Since this wasn't actually about MV, but more inspired by the whole concept of fairness in contests, I didn't go into it, but basically MV is a skin artist who has won like 7 skin contests in a row. People started getting salty about MV winning contest after contest, and have been suggesting that there be limits to how much one can win, needing to have a 'cooldown' period on being able to win another contest after winning etc..
https://imgur.com/ByyPurx
This post is basically the reason why I posted this rant, and the rest of the 'drama' is basically this just repeated ad nauseum.
Since this wasn't actually about MV, but more inspired by the whole concept of fairness in contests, I didn't go into it, but basically MV is a skin artist who has won like 7 skin contests in a row. People started getting salty about MV winning contest after contest, and have been suggesting that there be limits to how much one can win, needing to have a 'cooldown' period on being able to win another contest after winning etc..
https://imgur.com/ByyPurx
This post is basically the reason why I posted this rant, and the rest of the 'drama' is basically this just repeated ad nauseum.
SA
The rant was also inspired by the same ideas being thrown out to 'fix' the unfairness in dom (ie a specific flight winning all the time) and the same idea that a contest in which players have to do more than just enter can be 'fair' and that punishing people who win makes the contest 'fair'.
The rant was also inspired by the same ideas being thrown out to 'fix' the unfairness in dom (ie a specific flight winning all the time) and the same idea that a contest in which players have to do more than just enter can be 'fair' and that punishing people who win makes the contest 'fair'.
AYRT
Yeah, and voting probably wouldn't go the way they think. Beyond what you have said:
1. This would mean that either the skin contests have to be opened earlier, probably overlapping other skin contests, or players would simply have less time to get their entries in, because the staff would most likely have to go through the post and get rid of any entries that don't follow the rules, any entries that they definitely don't want to win, and then format the poll so that the skins are easily viewable.
2. Voting would most likely need a week, so that everyone who wants to vote has a good chance (since some people can only get on once a week, I figure a full week would be good) to do so.
3. If we get more than say 20 skins entered that we can vote on? (assuming we are only voting on one or two) Yeah, a lot of people will go through say 10 of them and get tired of flipping the page and voting. Putting all the skins on one page would be *hell* on people's data allowance and loading times. Often this means that the first seen are the ones that get the most votes. Randomize the skins, and you now have the issue of those that get randomized to the front few pages get the most votes.
4. People still won't necessarily get what they want. As said in 1, the staff will have to get rid of any skins that don't meet the rules of the contest, which means that they can easily get rid of skins that they simply don't want to win as well, so we would basically be voting on skins that were already preselected. Beyond that, the player base will vote on skins they like, which is the point, but the player base isn't a hive mind. It will be like most other polls with multiple options. There likely won't be a clear winner, which now means in addition to being angry at the staff for not picking 'good skins' users will now be angry at the player base for not picking the skins that they wanted to win. (and if people don't believe me, look at some of the polls that had been run and player reaction to them, both while they were being run and after the winners were announced, I still see people upset that the tertiary option for pie/paint didn't win)
Yeah, and voting probably wouldn't go the way they think. Beyond what you have said:
1. This would mean that either the skin contests have to be opened earlier, probably overlapping other skin contests, or players would simply have less time to get their entries in, because the staff would most likely have to go through the post and get rid of any entries that don't follow the rules, any entries that they definitely don't want to win, and then format the poll so that the skins are easily viewable.
2. Voting would most likely need a week, so that everyone who wants to vote has a good chance (since some people can only get on once a week, I figure a full week would be good) to do so.
3. If we get more than say 20 skins entered that we can vote on? (assuming we are only voting on one or two) Yeah, a lot of people will go through say 10 of them and get tired of flipping the page and voting. Putting all the skins on one page would be *hell* on people's data allowance and loading times. Often this means that the first seen are the ones that get the most votes. Randomize the skins, and you now have the issue of those that get randomized to the front few pages get the most votes.
4. People still won't necessarily get what they want. As said in 1, the staff will have to get rid of any skins that don't meet the rules of the contest, which means that they can easily get rid of skins that they simply don't want to win as well, so we would basically be voting on skins that were already preselected. Beyond that, the player base will vote on skins they like, which is the point, but the player base isn't a hive mind. It will be like most other polls with multiple options. There likely won't be a clear winner, which now means in addition to being angry at the staff for not picking 'good skins' users will now be angry at the player base for not picking the skins that they wanted to win. (and if people don't believe me, look at some of the polls that had been run and player reaction to them, both while they were being run and after the winners were announced, I still see people upset that the tertiary option for pie/paint didn't win)
DA
Any time people want to have voting on stuff like this I always just remember:
The new flavor of Mountain Dew called "Hitler did nothing wrong" (https://newsfeed.time.com/2012/08/14/mountain-dews-dub-the-dew-online-poll-goes-horribly-wrong/ )
"Boaty McBoatface" (https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/22/world/europe/boaty-mcboatface-what-you-get-when-you-let-the-internet-decide.html )
and perhaps most relevant to a skin contest, this: https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/002/160/308/1f1.jpg
Any time people want to have voting on stuff like this I always just remember:
The new flavor of Mountain Dew called "Hitler did nothing wrong" (https://newsfeed.time.com/2012/08/14/mountain-dews-dub-the-dew-online-poll-goes-horribly-wrong/ )
"Boaty McBoatface" (https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/22/world/europe/boaty-mcboatface-what-you-get-when-you-let-the-internet-decide.html )
and perhaps most relevant to a skin contest, this: https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/002/160/308/1f1.jpg
MV has won a total of 8 contests, with 4 being won consecutively and the majority of their wins being the same breed/pose. People got salty (as they do, this isn't a new thing. It's happened to at least two other artists before like TalaTari) and started going off on drama blogs.
The root of the argument is, as op said, how contests are working, but there are a lot of flaws in the argument. Like even if MV/popular artist doesn't participate, it doesn't guarantee a skin other players want will win. imo MV and other artists who have won multiple times are good at adhering to what staff like, what the flight aesthetic is, and making it look good. That's really all there is to the contest itself, and tbh I applaud them for being able to pinpoint and make skins that exactly adhere to that aesthetic.
I think it's also important to note that MV got a lot of personal attacks/harassment from this. People were saying they were bribing the staff and that their works, not just fest submission, but also their umas were unoriginal. You can find most posts on either of the other salt blogs. I think SMR deleted the more negative ones but yeah... I feel bad for them because I'm sure it's ruined skinmaking for them.
The root of the argument is, as op said, how contests are working, but there are a lot of flaws in the argument. Like even if MV/popular artist doesn't participate, it doesn't guarantee a skin other players want will win. imo MV and other artists who have won multiple times are good at adhering to what staff like, what the flight aesthetic is, and making it look good. That's really all there is to the contest itself, and tbh I applaud them for being able to pinpoint and make skins that exactly adhere to that aesthetic.
I think it's also important to note that MV got a lot of personal attacks/harassment from this. People were saying they were bribing the staff and that their works, not just fest submission, but also their umas were unoriginal. You can find most posts on either of the other salt blogs. I think SMR deleted the more negative ones but yeah... I feel bad for them because I'm sure it's ruined skinmaking for them.
Voting will make it even worse, as the things "everyone" likes will win and nothing new will get through. There are plenty I've seen that would never get picked by voters.
Hope you like generic. That's all you'll get.
Hope you like generic. That's all you'll get.
What's up with egg prices? Feel like all of the big egg buyers up and left or something
No. They're still there and buying. The problem is the massive amount of last minute noct egg sellers glutting the market.
I think people tend to underestimate just how many extra Strange Chests (and, therefore, noc eggs) entered the economy last year from the post-Dustcarve event changes.
I am personally missing the 100g NotN egg prices, as someone who hatches a very lorge amount of eggs.
So current prices are good for that :]
So current prices are good for that :]
My problem with voting: Even though the staff obviously has their biases (y'know, Imperials.....), users voting will lean towards more certain breeds winning and others not winning very often. Users voting? Ah yes, we'll probably end up with people picking more of the popular breeds and less of the less-popular ones. Be ready for some more Imp/WCs and less male Mirrors/Banescales if something like this happens. Not to mention biases towards artists, which would result in the same scenario going on with MV right now.
Now letting users vote out of a group of 1-3, I wouldn't have an issue with it. Though that would probably fuck with the deadlines of the contests and might not be a good idea anyways, as you mentioned.
Now letting users vote out of a group of 1-3, I wouldn't have an issue with it. Though that would probably fuck with the deadlines of the contests and might not be a good idea anyways, as you mentioned.
AYRT
Yeah, I could maybe get behind voting for one or two of the skins, I just don't honestly think it would actually fix any of the things that the users are complaining about, and I feel that it could stir up more drama in addition to the stuff it was supposed to fix, but didn't.
Yeah, I could maybe get behind voting for one or two of the skins, I just don't honestly think it would actually fix any of the things that the users are complaining about, and I feel that it could stir up more drama in addition to the stuff it was supposed to fix, but didn't.
okay but who is MV? why are you using abbreviations, this isn’t a blog
Do we think more, less, or the same amount of people will invest in Noc eggs this year to resell, seeing how the market is doing right now?
MythicViper, the skin artist who's won like 6-7 fest contests in a row
I'm too lazy to datamine but when it comes to people who always enter skin contests there's like a group of 10-20 regulars.
And like it's super common that most of the winners each festival are regulars, either because they don't break the rules or because their aesthetic vibes with the judges.
Could skin contests being open longer give non-regulars more time to fix issues? perhaps? but like idk if that means more non-regulars will win.
To be honest, MVs skins are my aesthetic but also, they aren't all female ridgebacks/same design? I would have loved a fest themed rb set from their user shop though.
Other accent makers had runs of often they are a winner in the past (to the point where I could see the name and go oh that image is prob theirs bc aesthetic)
Really what I want more than anything now that we have so many breeds is more than 14 skin slots, grand exchange makes buying them so much easier than the rng chaos of restocking used to be.
So like if there are 18 skins and I don't have some breeds/vibe with an artist, maybe I'll find something I love vs 14 slots and math is less likely.
And like it's super common that most of the winners each festival are regulars, either because they don't break the rules or because their aesthetic vibes with the judges.
Could skin contests being open longer give non-regulars more time to fix issues? perhaps? but like idk if that means more non-regulars will win.
To be honest, MVs skins are my aesthetic but also, they aren't all female ridgebacks/same design? I would have loved a fest themed rb set from their user shop though.
Other accent makers had runs of often they are a winner in the past (to the point where I could see the name and go oh that image is prob theirs bc aesthetic)
Really what I want more than anything now that we have so many breeds is more than 14 skin slots, grand exchange makes buying them so much easier than the rng chaos of restocking used to be.
So like if there are 18 skins and I don't have some breeds/vibe with an artist, maybe I'll find something I love vs 14 slots and math is less likely.
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